10 year olds more likely to be on disability benefits than 50 year olds

[AgeingMillennial]

AIBU to think this is absolutely baffling? And at some point we really have to investigate why so many young children are non verbal, have severe emotional regulation problems etc?

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The problem with discussing this topic is parents of disabled children (understandably) come on and strongly state their case.

This doesnt take away from the fact there are some claiming who shouldnt be. 10% of all children in this country are not disabled enough for it to hold them back.

Poor schooling and lack of opportunities is another matter.

The problem is also the fact that some people are quick to judge with little understanding of DLA, the process and how a child even becomes eligible for DLA.

Almost 3% of school age children are in SENd schools and state maintained AP.

That’s not including students in PRUs, mainstream additional support bases, or in mainstream with support. It also doesn’t include elective home educated students.

20.6% have either an EHCP or SENd support plan, in any setting.

So yes. The figures do check out.

In fact they’re actually quite generous. If 10% are claiming DLA, that means there’s a further 10.6% who have an established need, who aren’t.

I was a teacher in a deprived school, and was trying to provide in a class of 32+, sone years 40%+ came up with IEPs, classified as SEN as they were not at age related expectations.

With good teaching and encouragement to believe in themselves, with good staff listening to them etc some of these pupils were able to make massive progress and reach or exceed those expectations.

Those with more serious SEN did not receive the support they needed. Because too may had been ascribed as having needs that limited them and their futures.

So yes, I do feel strongly about too many being diagnosed and labelled as it does limit the help those who really need it will get. Resources are not finite.

Anyone who thinks every single person receiving DLA is getting it fairly is in denial

I will bow out of the conversation now as understandably there is much strong feeling about it and people bring their own difficult experiences to the table.

To reiterate, those who need lots of extra support should be receiving help, in every way

Yes, similar story here. With a slightly different ending, I assume.

I taught in mainstream primary, SENd primary and AP. I came out of education 10 years ago and moved into specialist recruitment. During that time I’ve sat on both SEN & PEX panel, as part of the education provider staffing team for LAs.

I do also make it quite known that I have an autistic, preverbal, significantly cognitively impaired 10y/on son.

I am aware there’s an increase, and I’m aware of the impact this all has on mainstream schools, particularly when so many kids need support and staffing and resource is far from infinite.

But in fairness. OP said we needed to investigate why so many children are non-verbal. That’s not all children with EHCPs, it’s not all children who qualify for DLA, and it doesn’t cover all of the children even in her figures/graph.

The children she refers to all qualify because of their level of need, which apparently nobody has issue with until they do.

There are many posters on these threads who similarly qualify, but for very different needs, and they’re all valid claims too.

Its just a quick break from talking about small boats. You have to make sure all enemies of the people are included.

I do think that disabled children are a particularly low target though. Particularly wondering why there are more children than older adults with life limiting conditions...

Where is the specific cluster and what is the specific diagnosis?

That if there were a clear solution to the issue, those who have spent decades researching it and informing consultants who have dedicated their lives to treating it would be putting those things in place to deal with it.

Rates were high in 1995, rising significantly over 5 years, the spike in 1995 wasn’t massively different from where it is now. Rates came down a lot when CAMHS was formalised in 1995, until 2010 when austerity cuts meant £50 million of funding was cut from the service. Across local authorities, early intervention funding was cut by 55%, losing over £1bn in funding This means that more children are presenting to CAMHS in crisis, and they are unable to deal with anything preventative, or those who were close to crisis. The system has never caught up and is currently a total shambles.

The mental health issues themselves have not increased, but for three decades we haven’t been treating them properly and now we’re apparently surprised there are more adults struggling with poor mental health (and claiming PIP) and more children who are doing badly too.

Not diagnosing children isn’t the answer. Properly funding support for ALL children who have additional support needs is the answer.

2% of claims were over paid in error either by claimants or DWP error
7% were under paid for the same reason. Fraud in disability benefits is very low, just as it has been historically. It isn’t means tested so any question of people having “no need” for the money is irrelevant.

This is ridiculous, we cannot go on like this.

Ds2 took a significant overdose when he was 12 and came very close to needing resuscitation. He was also failure to thrive as a baby and needed ng tube feeding with high calorie formula milk.

Ds5 had neonatal sepsis when he was born. They used something to resuscitate him that was fairly new at the time. I think it was called peep or something like that.

Also ds1 got a £2 coin stuck in his throat and had to have it surgically removed. I'm not sure if he would have survived that a really long time ago but it's difficult to know because the coins would have been different sizes back then.

I might get slated for this but as someone older with a genuine disability I worked until I couldn’t - from literally washing cars at 10, paper round at 13, in a cafe from 14 - 17 then various part time jobs until education finished and I worked full time, sometimes up to 60 hours a week.

I started claiming benefits in my forties and I absolutely hate it, I’m constantly doing anything the job centre send me to get back to work but the problem is they promise reasonable adjustments and from experience I know it just doesn’t happen.

Suddenly we are surrounded by constant armchair psychologists and social media posts telling us that normal behaviour is signs of being neurodivergent and kids aren’t naughty anymore it’s always a sign of autism and ADHD.

You only need to look at old posts on this site from before around 2015 where SEN or being ND is barely mentioned and parenting discussions are completely different.
It comes up on so many threads now where people are struggling to discipline their kids and are told they are masking or it’s the “coke bottle effect” if they behave at school instead of realising they just have clear boundaries at school.

The misunderstanding of gentle parenting and confusion with permissive parenting means kids just don’t get proper discipline and instead parents attempt to reason with them which just causes confusion.

Younger parents see content online and monitor their kids for any signs then decide they have autism or ADHD and parent them differently. Suddenly it’s PDA so they go low demand or iPads are given for self regulation.

My sister has just had a private diagnosis for ADHD for my niece and I’d bet my life on it (from someone who genuinely has it) that she doesn’t have it but they have used the family link and it being hereditary for a diagnosis.
Once she had a diagnosis my sister got hers and again there are no signs and she spent years bullying me for being different to her!
I think my niece has genuine trauma from awful childhood experiences and has struggled with her mental health but she shows no signs of ADHD and I think she is aware of that which is why she used money she doesn’t have to go private when I had clear NHS records.

There is a regular poster on here who lists her child’s milestones every few months then fixates on one tiny thing (like a child repeating lines from a film) and uses language like “scripting” and is obsessed with getting a diagnosis. She has been to see so many different professionals because she’s obviously viewing social media content and if you watch enough of it then something at some point is going to seem familiar.

The autism spectrum is so wide now that people very mildly affected can claim benefits and I think it’s unfair when parents claim it and put limits on a child’s ability to thrive.
I had a friend with 3 kids on DLA for autism and told them constantly that she didn’t expect big results from school because of their disabilities and treated them completely different from peers.
They are now all young adults and two don’t work and claim benefits but the 3rd has graduated university and is looking like they have a bright future because they said they didn’t want to end up a statistic.
I think a big part of that is she has a different dad to the others and had involvement from him and his family to encourage her to do more with her life.

I’m not saying that the rise in awareness is all bad but in some cases it’s been abused and there are so many sources online telling people what to say in order to claim benefits.

Someone who was once my friend admitted she used them herself for her claims and I genuinely believed she was physically disabled to the point she could only take a few steps until she shared her Apple Watch data.
I found it interesting that when she was on holiday in America she was doing up to 30,000 steps a day but I’d never seen her without her stick.

There are obviously people who fiddle the system and genuine cases but I think the difference now is that people are constantly online and seeing things that they think “that sounds like me” like time blindness with ADHD or being an introvert and struggling socially and thinking that makes them autistic.

It also results in trends, there was a thread on here about “sickfluencers” that ended up just being drowned out with cries of “ableism” but it very clearly is a thing.
I had years of bullying and shame and hiding my mental health struggles and now people wear them as a badge and seem keen to have a label, some don’t seem to have caught on so I suffer a lot of stigma so I think it’s great in one way that we are more open about things but I do wonder if the fact that there is a link between autism and ADHD being talked about more and there being more people diagnosed with these illnesses rather than things like bipolar, schizophrenia, personality disorders, psychosis and other less glamorous illnesses.

I guess we will see what pans out in the future but the kids with genuine struggles and disabilities are being doubted or will have to deal with budget cuts due to high numbers of people being over diagnosed and that’s a genuine worry for anyone who is relying on benefits as a last resort.

@SleeplessInWherever my son would be in that 10% not claiming. He has a SEN support plan and an ASD diagnosis but I don’t claim any disability benefit for him. I don’t want the stress of completing the form and don’t feel his needs are significant enough to claim for. Also money wouldn’t help with the issues I do struggle with for him (meltdowns, lack of available counselling for children locally, even private counselling)

Have you not even bothered to read the recent government review on mental health in young people.

So benefits are ok for you but not anybody else. Autism and adhd numbers are stable having been under diagnosed as highlighted by the nhs ADHD task force and recent government reviews. They have found young people are NOT snowflakes, life is tough for young people and there have been sharp increases in emotional problems and distress among children and young people. Those with MH, autism and ADHD are being hugely let down as they are not getting access to support,diagnosis or treatment , ditto with SEND. We as adults have frankly let younger generations down in so many ways and should hang our heads in shame. Threads like this are despicable.

There is no one clear solution, but there are lots of factors that have proven to be linked to anxiety, depression, ADHD, autism etc. Not causing them, but worsening symptoms.

Just to link some examples regarding food: https://scienceinsights.org/what-vitamins-are-good-for-anxiety-and-depression/
https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/how-sugar-harms-mental-health
https://www.adhdcentre.co.uk/what-is-the-relationship-between-adhd-and-nutrition-how-diet-impacts-your-childs-behaviour-and-focus/
https://neurolaunch.com/diet-autism/

There is tonnes of research out there about how our lifestyles effect us as humans. Some of it quite unexpected - like led bulbs effecting metabolisms due to lack of red light, or household chores decreasing dementia risk.

As to why it's not always highlighted by medical professionals - I'm just guessing, but maybe it's partially they're not specialists in nutrition, partially they don't think it's realistic to ask patients to change their whole lifestyles, partially they do mention them as factors but then leave it up to the patients to decide what to implement.

For example, I think every parent has heard that sugar can worsen ADHD symptoms and that it's bad for us in general. Lots of parents still feed their kids sugar. We live in the modern world and it would be very hard to tell your child they're not allowed what all their friends are eating.

That's what I mean by my first post saying that I put a lot down to modern lifestyles. It's almost impossible to opt out of ultra processed food (just look at school canteens), smartphones, depressing world news bombarding you, a less cohesive community network, etc etc.

To be honest I find it strange that you think our surroundings don't have an effect on our health and wellbeing.

This is interesting, I hadn't heard this before. I thought overall suicide rates had dropped but youth suicide had increased? Can you link to where you found the info?

Mental health problems have increased substantially in young people, according to an independent government-commissioned review published in October. The independent review confirmed a genuine, real-world rise in mental distress, anxiety, and depression among young people.

Among 16 to 24-year-olds, the proportion meeting the criteria for a common mental disorder has risen to about 1 in 4 up from roughly 1 in 6 in 1993), with young women experiencing the highest rates.
The review noted significant increases in self-harm and eating disorders in this age group.

Researchers attributed the rise to a combination of economic uncertainty, financial and housing pressures, greater educational stress, social media usage, poor sleep, and loneliness.

While formal diagnoses, referrals, and waiting lists for ADHD and autism have surged sharply, the review found that the underlying population-level prevalence of those specific neurodivergent conditions has remained relatively stable.

Following the findings, the Department of Health and Social Care has pledged a major overhaul of mental health services focusing on early intervention and prevention allowing young people to receive advice and support before reaching a clinical cris

Scientific research shows that sugar does not cause ADHD, and eliminating it will not make ADHD go away. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition with strong genetic roots, not something brought on or cured by diet.

I don’t think a measured debate about this subject is possible for many because it involves children.

Ultimately the actual truths such as children not surviving in previous years and I don’t think anyone had raised the point that children were actually left to die deliberately in the past are too emotional for most to deal with.

But what this shows is the underlying changing tide regarding the attitude towards the welfare state.

How patronising and dismissive to opposing views you don’t like.Actually spending on disability benefits is relatively popular.

• Support for the government spending more on ‘welfare benefits for the poor’ is comparatively low. The proportion who are opposed is 15 points higher than the proportion in favour.
• However, 49% back more spending on benefits for disabled people who cannot work, while just 7% are opposed.
• No less than 63% say that benefits for disabled people are a priority for extra spending on social benefits – more than say this of any other benefit including retirement pensions (53%)
• Even among those who oppose the government spending more on welfare benefits for the poor, just 11% favour spending less on disabled people

https://natcen.ac.uk/publications/bsa-43-attitudes-welfare

The system is set up to value working and not optimal infant development and nutrition. I’ve lost count of the times I was told by a parent for example that they tried to toilet train their toddler and the nursery put them back in nappies ?? Apparently to do with ratios ? Very young children need 1:1 care and they don’t often get that in nurseries and it can affect speech and socialises lot more than screens

My thoughts exactly. Housing crisis at the heart of this. Both parents working long hours and very high use of nurseries compared to europe. This is not a slight on nursery workers who are dedicated people, but the adult to child ratios prevent one to one nurture. Once the parent picks up the child from nursery, said parents are tired and have less to give in terms of parenting. The rise in SEND does seem to track exactly to the increase in use of paid/subsidised care.