AIBU - problems with antisemitism amongst NHS medical staff?

[Twiglets1]

The Campaign Against Antisemitism, a prominent UK watchdog group, has identified five healthcare professionals whose public statements it considers antisemitic or anti-Israel.

The five individuals, all current or former National Health Service employees, include midwife Fatimah Mohamied, who allegedly endorsed a post supporting Palestinian “resistance” on Oct. 7, 2023 by responding “Hell yeah!!!” to a post during the Hamas-led onslaught of October 7, 2023, that said: “Palestinians have a right to resist their occupation — we have a right to support them.”

Additionally, physician Dr. Abdelaal Ragheb Elfarra claimed Zionists control the media and the world; psychiatrist Dr. Ahmed Sewehli said regarding Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “you need to be dead”; and emergency physician Dr. Nadeem Crowe described Israel as a “terrorist octopus.” Occupational therapist Zaida Akhtar allegedly shared a video appearing to encourage violence against Netanyahu’s son and a “false flag” claim about the Bondi Beach attack in Australia last year.

The allegations concerning the medical professionals follow a review published in June by John Mann, the British government’s independent adviser on antisemitism, which found “routine ostracism” of Jewish staff and patients within the NHS.

Jewish community representatives have warned that antisemitism in healthcare can affect patients at moments of particular vulnerability.

Karen Newman, a vice president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, described that concern during parliamentary testimony on May 14. She spoke about Jewish patients hesitating to request kosher meals after seeing a Palestinian badge on a nurse’s uniform.

“That is not a moment when you feel good asking for kosher meals,” she said.

https://www.jns.org/news/world/medical-staff-antisemitism-flagged-in-uk

I don't think anyone who chooses not to wear a red poppy does so because they think WW2 was unnecessary, do they?

I think it's the conflicts that followed that concern people.

Is it ok to wear a symbol remembering the dead if you don't agree with their cause? It's a genuine question, I'm never too sure how to feel about it. I have family in the army and feel desperately sad for soldiers killed in recent conflicts. But I'd probably think Germans were a bit tone deaf if they put a lot of emphasis on remembering the fallen in WW2. Even though on an individual level, the people on the front line weren't morally better or worse than Allied forces... just normal people told to protect their country and their families.

Your own examples paint pro Palastine as antisemitism. Don't try and talk around it and make out that isn't what you are doing. I'm sure there is antisemitism just like there is racism or prejudice against every group but this rehtoric that Pro Palastine = Antisemitism that you are playing in to is causing a divide, creating more tension and making people fearful. They see a Free Palastine badge and worry they will be discriminated for being Jewish because of this rhetoric, which in the vast majority of cases is not true.

It’s not hypocritical. Poppies don’t make people feel unsafe. They have been established for over a hundred years as a way we remember our war dead. Those people who fought and died to protect this country.

They’re not political symbols relating to a complex situation in a region thousands of miles away, they don’t call for any particular action and they don’t represent any political party.

It’s very different.

Agreed. Of all the issues raised, they only want to focus on the one that most people would agree is not antisemitic. You would think the other points raised were written in invisible ink. They may as well by got all they acknowledged by some people.

It seems like you didn’t read the whole Op. You’ve cherry picked one part of a long OP that gave multiple examples. And was then followed in posts 2 and 3 with more info.

In just the opening post, Twiglets1 references posts calling the Bondi attack a false flag and the fact that Jewish people are afraid to identify themselves as such in hospital by ordering Kosher meals. Yet you minimised the issue by focusing on only one comment, which I agree is debatable and probably not antisemitic as a stand alone comment, and so didn’t respond to the point of the actual thread. Why is that?

Fair enough to make it part of the conversation. But you must admit people keep making this same point over and over again about Netanyahu.

Far less interest in the other points. Like the claim by an NHS physician that Zionists control the media and the world.

Exactly. But i would say no to the flags of any country including English, Scottish, Welsh etc.

Except some people.they do actually, as I already said. There are swathes of British peopl for whom the poppy is a complicated or distressing symbol..I'm not the one proposing banning symbols when staff otherwise treat patients with dignity and respect though but absolutely there are people who would prefer that their clinician wasn't wearing a poppy.
You and PP keep using words like "our" and "this country" which is further politicising the poppy. If you're going to argue to restrict NHS staff freedom of expression, fine but be consistent.

I'm still baffled as to why a Jewish patient would be afraid to order a Kosher meal in hospital.
Their religion would be on the admittance form. The fact their are Jewish may even be obvious from their clothes.
The canteen staff have better things to do, and really aren't bothered if you are vegan, lactose intolerant, Muslim, Jewish, pescatarian or coeliac. They just want to plate it up and go home.

I commented on one part of the op that I have something to say about. I'm well aware that there is anti-semetism, racism, sexism etc in our society, I don't disagree. I just don't have a solution.

Why is it that you expect to be able to dictate and bully others into only saying what you want them to? Inferring people are antisemitic (which is what I think you're implying?) if they don't agree with a fixed narrow narrative doesn't seem reasonable.

If I was to put a lengthy post up saying several reasonable things and one wildly outrageous claim, of course people will respond to the outrageous bit.

Except many hospitals already fly these flags as standard. I'm sure it'll go down really well with the flag shaggers that you want NHS sites to stop flying union jacks. Oh and removing all the staff diversity and appreciation groups will go down great with equality law when you want to keep your poppies and veteran groups. I find Mumsnet a weird place where only half the people are speaking from a basis of reality.

Ok, taking your assertion at face value, finding a poppy distressing is not remotely the same as feeling threatened against a background of ongoing actual real abuse and physical threat. We can’t ban everything anyone finds triggering.

Wearing a poppy to commemorate the dead is extremely important for some. It’s an act of remembrance and honour, not a political statement.

We can, however, stop intimidating Jewish people while they seek healthcare.

I can think of no other minority for whom people would openly quibble on this.

Their religion would not be obvious from their clothes unless they were Orthodox Jews. Just because you are baffled by something doesn’t make it untrue that some Jewish people have felt uncomfortable ordering kosher meals because there is too much antisemitism in UK society, even the NHS.

Why are you picking me up on saying ‘our’ and ‘this country’ - what’s your problem with that? I’m referring to the UK, as the OP is about the NHS and so I refer to the sacrifice of UK service men and women. What on earth is wrong with that?

I think banning all political symbols is more difficult than you might think.

I work for the NHS and I work with teens. I wear a rainbow "you are safe with me" lanyard. I've had several teens comment that it made it easier to discuss sexuality and gender identity. But, it's arguably a political symbol. It isn't intended to make anyone feel unsafe though.

I think poppies are undoubtedly a political symbol, but that doesn't make them harmful. I don't personally feel a pro-palestine badge is wise at present, as it's a political view that's a lot more "hot" so I'd save that one for outside work.

You can't advocate for restricting staff based on the feelings of one group and then say another group being upset and distressed isn't the same as the distress Jewish people experience. I can tell you for certain I have family with trauma that find a poppy very intimidating.Either we ban things based on how patients may feel or we allow staff their freedom of expression provided all patients are treated with dignity and respect. As I said up thread, many healthcare workers are wearing badges in solidarity with the real physical threat and danger their colleagues in Palestine, including British medics, are facing.

Because it seems to go over yours and PPs head that some of the people that feel threatened and intimidated by a poppy are British people and we do not have a homogenous opinion of poppies, neither should we.

ETA that it's obvious you're trying to paint anyone who would have an issue with the poppy as a foreigner or outsider.

Oh come on. You’rr not being dictated to or bullied. You have chosen to post on a public forum in response to a post which you miss the whole point of, and choose to micro-focus on one point and minimise the more substantive parts. Why post an opinion if you don’t want debate on it?

You’re part of a pattern on the thread. I’m not saying you personally are antisemitic, I’m inviting you to elaborate on why you didn’t address the point about antisemitism in the NHS and instead chose to focus on the micro point and give the impression of hand-waving the bigger point away. It’s up to you whether you want to expand on that.

Not Jewish but husband is. 18 years ago pregnant with DS and have my last checkup.
mentioned baby was quite active, healthcare professional put me at ease, just hiccups.

DP then mentions he’s Jewish - her whole energy changed. Suddenly I needed an urgent scan as baby was fitting rather than hiccups.

she looked at me like I was an actual monster when I pointed out she had just told me hiccups.
she was fucking hideous and I would have complained at the time but was so upset.

Anyone living in Britain for whom the poppy is a distressing symbol should really do themselves a favour and make arrangements to no longer be living in this country.

I mean, get a grip.

Kindly I'm not sure if I'm just not following, but how is a HCP arranging additional tests in view of the slightly heigtened risk some with Jewish heritage could have prenatally an example for NHS racism?

I couldnt disagree with you more. There is a world full of people who are outraged by the conduct of Netanyahu and Israel and many of us are jewish. There is a great difference in being anti jewish and opposing zionism. Netanyahu and zionist supporters use the anti semitism card when.people criticize Israel, which is, in my view, their defense of the undefendable.
Sadly there are a minority of people who are racist and include all jews in the anti Israel pack. Netanyahu and Israel.have caused the problem by assuming, quite wrongly, that he has the support of the world jewish community and calling all criticism anti semetic. Equally sadly this has given those racists a little more voice. The NHS is only the reflector of the world at large.
The other think that I note is that the UK has resisted criticism of Israel's acts far more than many other countries and punishes pro Palestine protests fiercely and disproportionally. This causes a reaction.

Zionism.is political position and is not directly related to the jewish faith, but far too many people dont seem to understand the difference including many jews.

By the way, the palestians are also semetic people and many israelis have no semetic origens at all and are in fact of european heritage.

Sorry, no deal. Get rid of pro-Palestine badges in the NHS and keep the poppy.

They are not equivalent at all.