SEND education issue for non-verbal child - standard of English in the classroom.

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m am extremely conflicted and finding it really hard to know if my opinion is reasonable or utterly disgusting.

My younger son is 8. He is pre-verbal with ASD and is in a specialist school with a focus on communication needs, so all of the children have SALT and OT input. He has been there since March. His first (half) year was excellent. His teacher and lead TA were superb and I saw progression regularly.

His new class is concerning me. Now I suspect some people will think I’m racist or bigoted but I am genuinely not sure what to do. There is a classroom team of 4 - 1 teacher and 3 TAs for 8 children so it’s high input. Not a single teacher or TA speaks English to a high level. They are all heavily accented and their written and spoken English is not to a level I would expect to be acceptable in a classroom.

The standard of writing in his communication book is concerning; there are at least three contributors, none of whom can write appropriately in English.

After a conversation with his teacher on Friday I am still concerned. I couldn’t entirely understand what he said to me, owing to both accent and grammar.

I feel that for children with significant learning disabilities around speech and language it’s a reasonable expectation that they have clear English in the classroom. Is this unreasonable? Am I being disgusting?

To be clear: I am non-white, I’m a second generation immigrant, I am not racist but I’m starting to feel utterly unable to know how best to deal with this and advocate for my child whose education is suffering (I believe).

I work in education (not a teacher) - I know it’s stretched and stressful and hard and thankless. I’m not wanting to add to the school’s burden but I’m worried for my child.

If you want more context, for anyone who remembers my little boy is the subject of the long-running ‘my son just called me mummy’ thread.

Happy to answer questions.

Sharing other cultures and having a good grasp of English and a high level of communication skills aren’t mutually exclusive. Having teachers with good communication skills is vital for DC with communication issues.

I don't think I have - I think your point is one that's unreasonable though, sorry.

Exposure to accents is good for them. Even now I struggle with accents and I really work hard to center my mind and focus when talking with someone with an accent

They will hear all sorts of accents irl - at Sainsbury's, at the swimming pool, on the bus

As long as they're using the tools properly and appropriately, I wouldn't worry.

And back to the OP yes you should raise it in a what is being modelled way, I have worked with a SALT who had a very strong accent and it did make things much harder for some of the children.

when a child is pre verbal or has limited speech what is being modelled to them really does matter.

I think the communication skills seem fine according to the photo

Not perfect but we're not going to have Oxford graduates writing out notes to parents. As long as they're legible and clear, and doing the job properly, I think it's unreasonable to complain

I.nwver said they didnt need culture or input but the most important thing for a non verbal child is communication

I am intelligent, articulate, professional and have been exposed to many people of many different cultures in my nearly 50 years including my own family who are non-white (and some heavily accented also).

I had great difficulty understanding his teacher during a conversation, knowing the point of the conversation and the subject matter we were covering. I don’t think it’s a leap to surmise a child with receptive language difficulties would also find it a challenge to understand him.

I disagree.

My son does need to learn about other cultures. But he needs to learn to communicate more.

I don’t care if his teacher is bright purple. I’d like them to be able to speak to him in a manner he can understand.

Its appaling from a qualified teacher.

My son is also a Gestalt Language Processor and requires consistent gestalts to be modelled during activities. It’s really important language is very clear,

Okay we disagree and that's fine, I do think yabu to complain tbh.

I disagree with you. While you can understand what happened during the day, the communication skills displayed are far from fine.

This isn’t about accents. It goes well beyond that.

I’d point out here that when I was a mainstream teacher, before moving into SENd, I was downgraded on an observation for spoken language.

A child had said my name when I had my back to them. I turned and said “yeah?” And received negative feedback for not using the proper term “yes” and for modelling casual language in a formal classroom environment.

As a mainstream teacher. Now don’t get me wrong, that was excessive and would be in a SENd setting, but that’s the actual standard. Not what’s in that note.

This is even more reason to look at the EHCP at the next AR like I suggested in my pp.

What is it if its not about understandable accents sorry?

Thank you - I will definitely do this.

It’s about the quality of the language being modelled. If he is not hearing English spoken in a way that is recognisable, and sentences are constructed using inconsistent grammar it will be harder for him to learn.

Being able to understand written word doesn’t make it acceptable in terms of grammar or communication.

I’ve worked with many kids who would write “I lyk mi skul.” I know what it says. It’s still wrong.

Okay well, i think complaining about this isn't the right thing but 🤷‍♀️

The government need to spend more on teachers who can deal with chsllengin sen behaviour and be a role model and patient and reliable, able to cope with various children's circumstances, in addition to perfect grammar then

Precisely. I was mainstreamed and wouldn't have thrived in a special school at all thinking back. I would have thought it too restricting and like it was holding me back. I passed my GCSEs (except for maths lol) just fine but needed support in lessons.

This is the bit I think you’re missing..

Having decent grammar is already an expectation of being a teacher.

It’s already part of gaining the qualification, of passing the observations, of even breathing near OFSTED.

Being able to manage behaviour at the level required to work in specialist, which isn’t actually even relevant in OP’s case because it’s not that kind of SENd school, is an additional skill.

But it’s additional to the basics, which includes grammar and communication.

I don’t expect perfect grammar, but I do think it’s reasonable to expect it to be reasonable.

Also, I have never once said I’m planning to ‘complain’.

I wanted to decide whether I’m reasonable in being concerned. My next steps are to speak with the head and find a way to work with the school to improve his experience. I don’t know what that looks like but it’s certainly not marching in and demanding he’s moved ir people are sacked etc.

Language and communication. Not accents. Not race. Not culture. Not ethnicity.

I know I talk fast normally, but I work with young children and my role means a large chunk of that is with children with additional needs. So I make sure I talk slowly and clearly (not in a patronising way!) because I am aware of the impact my modelling has on them. It doesn’t come naturally but it’s part of my role to make sure what I am modelling is clear.

That is appalling, given it’s written by the teacher.
All the people telling you it’s fine - I wonder if they’d be saying the same thing if their mainstream child’s teacher had such poor English.
OP, it’s entirely reasonable for you to expect your son’s teacher to have a decent standard of spoken and written English.

I think that what you ask for from the school has to be dependent on your son’s actual needs.

for exsmple, there are children who will never learn spoken English from it being modelled by other people because they are deaf.

they need completely different teaching.

how does your son communicate? Pecs, aac, etc? Yes, modelling clear English is important (for normally developing children) but it might not be anywhere near as important for him depending on his needs.