SEND education issue for non-verbal child - standard of English in the classroom.

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m am extremely conflicted and finding it really hard to know if my opinion is reasonable or utterly disgusting.

My younger son is 8. He is pre-verbal with ASD and is in a specialist school with a focus on communication needs, so all of the children have SALT and OT input. He has been there since March. His first (half) year was excellent. His teacher and lead TA were superb and I saw progression regularly.

His new class is concerning me. Now I suspect some people will think I’m racist or bigoted but I am genuinely not sure what to do. There is a classroom team of 4 - 1 teacher and 3 TAs for 8 children so it’s high input. Not a single teacher or TA speaks English to a high level. They are all heavily accented and their written and spoken English is not to a level I would expect to be acceptable in a classroom.

The standard of writing in his communication book is concerning; there are at least three contributors, none of whom can write appropriately in English.

After a conversation with his teacher on Friday I am still concerned. I couldn’t entirely understand what he said to me, owing to both accent and grammar.

I feel that for children with significant learning disabilities around speech and language it’s a reasonable expectation that they have clear English in the classroom. Is this unreasonable? Am I being disgusting?

To be clear: I am non-white, I’m a second generation immigrant, I am not racist but I’m starting to feel utterly unable to know how best to deal with this and advocate for my child whose education is suffering (I believe).

I work in education (not a teacher) - I know it’s stretched and stressful and hard and thankless. I’m not wanting to add to the school’s burden but I’m worried for my child.

If you want more context, for anyone who remembers my little boy is the subject of the long-running ‘my son just called me mummy’ thread.

Happy to answer questions.

I’ve purposely not name changed so no one thinks this is rage-bait.

When you say heavily accented, some English regions do have significant accents. I’m thinking Geordie, Liverpool area also, lots of areas have quite significant regional accents.

if it’s a regional accent then you would be very unreasonable to complain.

most people with accents are not able to switch them off. So if you did complain to the school I’m not sure what you would expect them to do - they aren’t going to let you interview the teachers until you get one without an accent (and of course everyone has an accent so I presume you mean a more acceptable accent).

the written English should be of good standard but it’s common for teachers to make errors.

Sorry - I wasn’t clear. Not regional UK.

I’m not talking about mistakes. I mean writing that is genuinely difficult to understand - not the odd spelling mistake or wrong ‘your’.

I disagree, any teacher should be able to be understood by the children they are teaching. If someone’s regional accent is so strong that their class can’t understand them then that’s a major problem. Don’t matter which region or country they are from they need to be understood clearly for both education and safety.

Op, would you have a problem if he learnt to speak English with an accent? I have a pre verbal teen with asd. Personally I wouldn't give a shiny shit if he spoke with an accent or used sign language or aac. Him being able to have a form of communication is the most important thing. Also you have a role to play in shaping him

So sad that you feel you cannot raise this very important issue for fear of being thought racist. It is not racist to want the best for your child. Every child in the Uk should be taught by people who are competent in English. We have lost our way as a country if this situation can be thought acceptable.

They are native English speakers (and readers and writers) though and would know to speak clearly in an educational setting. In Liverpool, we drop letters off words and pronounce some words differently eg. Me baby was cryin. But in schools, teachers with the strongest Liverpool accents going would say ‘my baby was crying’ and change their annunciation for teaching reading and writing. It’s not equivalent to speakers of English as a second or additional language at all.

No I don’t care if he speaks with an accent. It’s more about his receptive language acquisition and how he may not understand what they say to him.

Of course you’re not racist, and of course it’s not unreasonable to expect anyone working in a school, particularly a SEN school where clear communication is key, to be able to speak very fluent English regardless of accent.

That said the sheer demand for SEN staff, TAs and 121s means we are very unlikely to fill these posts without the immigrant workforce and that does mean compromising. They’re never going to fill those posts with Brits because many would prefer UC to working such a demanding role. So I’m not sure what can be done about it.

Please can I thank you for the replies so far - I was really expecting to be told I was completely out of order so more diverse set of opinions has made me feel better.

Absolutely and I’m cognisant of the challenges especially in the SEN sector.

I do also feel though that the narrative is that the spaces are so sought after we’re expected to be grateful for anything we get and any complaints are unacceptable.

I would want to know that their recruitment practices are as robust and as transparent as they can be and that they get the most qualified people they can, in all regards. And that it isn’t just one of those for profit run businesses owned by overseas investors trying to maximise profits and rip the council off.

I was a teacher for many years.

retaining TAs is very difficult and as it is a job where you are subject to a certain amount of verbal and physical abuse most people prefer to take jobs where they are not being hit/spat at/shouted at etc.

i was a TA for five years.

many TAs moved on to be qualified teachers, some moved on to better paid jobs (almost anything is better paid).

most jobs will at least pay lip service to the idea that you should not be abused - see signs in nhs a and e for example about verbal abuse.

schools don’t even have that level of lip service to the idea that you should be safe at your job - if you are a SEN TA then being physically attacked is just part of the job and it’s rare to be given any training on how to deal with it.

it’s hardly surprising people prefer almost anything to being a SEN TA and taking abuse regularly.

It’s a maintained school - not a private provider.

I experience this situation regularly in my job and share in your concern. It does worry me that for some of the children I work with, who need a very high level of support with their language development, they are getting language models from adults that are very poor.

I do have to say that some of the language models that native English speakers give them are also not great. Not broken English but just very poor quality language input. There is a real issue with quality educational support for children with additional needs.

Of course you're not being unreasonable. It's also awful that so many doctors and nurses have poor or heavily accented English and this has been shown to cause medical errors. But our immigration policies combined with our lack of training Brits means this is what we have.

Oh sorry - in terms of what you can do -

if there are parallel classes you could ask for him to be moved.

as he’s at a maintained school I presume it is a special school and they do generally put a lot of thought into the classes so it’s possible you could be moving him from a class where you have a relatively low level concern to one where there are more problems (eg very violent other student who hates him)

talk to the school

Thank you. Round here people with broad local accents drop their H's and say ey up instead of hello, but teachers within a school setting wouldn't talk like that to the children.

I absolutely understand this. The children in this school do not have violent behavioural issues - it’s a specific exclusion.

I’m not saying it’s not a hugely difficult role but at this particular school some of those issues are less likely.

Also, my older son had 1-1 TAs whilst in mainstream and they were the sole reason he got through as well as he did. I value them highly and do not underestimate their contribution.

I agree i have a severley autistic non verbal teen
These children are some of the most vulnerable in society if the staff teaching them are not able to communicate effectivley
How are their needs being met.?

This is how I feel about SEN provision sometimes.

I’ve a child with asd in special education so I 100% understand your concerns. You are absolutely not unreasonable to feel concerned and to be unhappy with the current situation.

The relief in the content of your replies has honestly made me cry.

Thank you for all of the considered responses. I will think about how to bring this up with the school appropriately.

I do not expect the school to be his sole input but he is there for education and I’m currently just not convinced it’s effective.

YANBU - for the record I live and work in a diverse area and love that. I’m as far from Reform as you can get. There are plenty of very well educated people born in other countries whose English is excellent and there are people born here whose English is not great. This is a language skills issue. You should raise this concern but more concerning is that they were hired in the first place. That suggests that the standards are very low or the supply of staff is very poor. I’d be looking at moving them to another school if possible.

I understand that but unfortunately the duality can’t really be reconciled. SEN is under such imaginable pressure particularly from non verbal autistic children which only made up a small % of their caseload 20 years ago. I’m not sure there’s much to be done sadly.

This is also an issue in healthcare settings.