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To find this desperately sad? TW: freebirth death

484 replies

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 18:11

I just feel so sad for her husband and little boy. I also understand why she didn’t want to go into hospital. Feels like women are stuck between a rock and a hard place with childbirth at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/jun/20/stacey-warnecke-melbourne-influencer-died-freebirth-inquest-ntwnfb

OP posts:
Metalmotha · 09/10/2026 20:19

Lmnop22 · 09/10/2026 20:05

I’ve had two babies and my baby would have died first time and I would have died second time but for the fact we were in a hospital already.

I understand that there are some bad experiences in hospital but to give birth at home with nobody medically trained there is surely FAR more dangerous

The hospital nearly killed me and my baby by breaking my waters too early then giving me medication my wristband clearly showed I was allergic to, then cane the cover up, undermining of my mental state, refusal to tell me who my midwife had been and that was just the start. Not to mention the full blown argument between SCBU doctors and the ward midwife’s. There’s a reason all these investigations keep happening

nocoolnamesleft · 09/10/2026 20:19

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:18

Nothing wrong with a natural home birth with an experienced midwife and an ambulance on standby, specifically if you have been monitored and checked during the weeks leading up to it. I had one and it was so much better than my previous hospital birth and can highly recommend, but I would never have had a self managed home birth with no professional support on hand.

There is never an ambulance on standby. There aren't enough ambulances to tie one up waiting for a home birth to go wrong.

LumpkinPumpkin · 09/10/2026 20:20

icanfeelitallover · 09/10/2026 19:59

Home birth is never safe.

I would tend to disagree.

There is a significant difference between something carrying an element of risk and something being inherently unsafe.

Safe maternity care isn’t about being physically in a hospital. It’s about appropriate risk assessment, skilled and experienced midwives, recognising deviations from normal physiology, and identifying when additional monitoring or medical intervention is required. Very often, complications don’t arise suddenly. There may be subtle changes in observations, or even behaviour, that prompt a recommendation for transfer. This is precisely why planned home births should be attended by qualified midwives, with pathways for escalation and transfer to hospital.

Obviously, there are occasions when serious emergencies occur suddenly, without any identifiable warning signs. In those circumstances, immediate access to hospital care can be life saving. I don’t think anyone should pretend otherwise. But neither should we pretend that being in hospital eliminates the possibility of an adverse outcome.

Labour and birth are not neatly defined periods of predictable risk. Complications can occur during the latent phase, established labour, second stage, immediately after birth or during the postnatal period. We don’t routinely admit women to hospital at term simply because labour could begin, and women planning hospital births don’t all arrive at the same stage of labour. Some will labour at home for many hours, others will arrive just before delivery, and some won’t make it through the hospital doors before giving birth. There is no magical point at which simply entering a hospital makes childbirth safe.

We actually have evidence on this. NICE guidance recognises that, for low-risk women who have previously given birth, planned home birth is associated with fewer interventions and no difference in serious outcomes for babies compared with planned obstetric-unit birth. For first-time mothers, the evidence does identify a small but important increase in serious adverse neonatal outcomes with planned home birth, and that absolutely deserves honest discussion with women who choose Homebirth.

I’m not arguing that home birth is appropriate for everybody, or that the location of birth never matters. Obviously it does. Individual risk factors, clinical circumstances, local services and access to emergency care are all important considerations.
But describing all home births as unsafe is an extraordinary oversimplification. It dismisses the evidence, the expertise of midwives, the importance of ongoing clinical assessment and, ultimately, women’s ability to make informed decisions about their own maternity care. Taking that choice away from women is simply paternalistic.

jetlag92 · 09/10/2026 20:20

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 19:07

Hardly anyone is eligible for them though. Unless everything is perfect on paper they won’t do it. High BMI, slightly high reading of anything, slightly large/small baby, slightly anything and you’re ’high risk’ and have to go to labour ward.

Because it's less safe if you are higher risk and there is pressure on the NHS and a shortage of midwives.

Newname26 · 09/10/2026 20:23

I think it would be good for women to be presented with proper facts clear and simple. Its almost like they don't want women to panic or know whats really going on.

Inductions
1 in X will give birth just with pessary.
1 in X will escalate to c-section
1 in X will have PPH

Natural Labour
1 in X will have PPH
1 in X baby will get stuck and need c-section.

Someone must monitor all those stats why do they want to keep them hidden away?

Because when things go wrong and its a Fuck we need to get baby out, women don't know why them, and it becomes scary.

whoshouldItalkto · 09/10/2026 20:23

Giving birth with no medical intervention has about a 1% risk of mortality for the mother (more for the baby). In the UK the maternal mortality rate is 13 per 100,000 live births. In Australia it is 8 per 100,000. So, while there are certainly problems with the the UK maternal health care system that require urgent attention, and to a lesser extent in Australia, it is far, far safer than going it alone. I can understand how some people are reluctant to access care after negative experiences, but for some it is more about "empowerment" or wanting to have the experience on their own terms and I do think this is highly irresponsible, particularly if encouraging others to do it.

rumerx · 09/10/2026 20:24

icanfeelitallover · 09/10/2026 19:59

Home birth is never safe.

Home births are very safe if you’re low risk. I’ve had two, one with a midwife and one without (no midwife available)

Rubyreds45 · 09/10/2026 20:27

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:18

Nothing wrong with a natural home birth with an experienced midwife and an ambulance on standby, specifically if you have been monitored and checked during the weeks leading up to it. I had one and it was so much better than my previous hospital birth and can highly recommend, but I would never have had a self managed home birth with no professional support on hand.

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this. An experienced midwife is great, but they are not a miracle save, and in England- assuming NHS- there is no “ambulance on standby”. You could ring one when things go wrong, sure, but there isn’t one waiting outside your door.

Monitoring for the weeks beforehand makes no real difference either- things can and do go wrong totally unexpectedly and within minutes can be life threatening. My first pregnancy was textbook, perfect, no concerns no issues, my birth was textbook too. That didn’t prevent the massive PPH I had, nothing predicted or even raised the slightest concern for that and had I been at home I wouldn’t be here to tell the tale. The typical response time for an ambulance Cat A where I live is 6 minutes, the average time for an emergency vehicle to get from this house to the hospital is 11 minutes, that would have been too many minutes to save my life.

SingingShrews · 09/10/2026 20:28

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 20:15

In a way it’s worse. Most women will be aware of the limitations of home birth but you expect to be safe in hospital so when it doesn’t happen it’s very distressing

Maybe this is what needs to change? People need to know that even in hospital things might go wrong, things might get scary because that's just the nature of childbirth. Things go wrong, medical professionals will try their best to help but they aren't gods.

Minasama · 09/10/2026 20:28

It’s a heavy price to pay for being stupid/uneducated/gullible. Promotion of this shouldn’t be allowed.

Newname26 · 09/10/2026 20:29

whoshouldItalkto · 09/10/2026 20:23

Giving birth with no medical intervention has about a 1% risk of mortality for the mother (more for the baby). In the UK the maternal mortality rate is 13 per 100,000 live births. In Australia it is 8 per 100,000. So, while there are certainly problems with the the UK maternal health care system that require urgent attention, and to a lesser extent in Australia, it is far, far safer than going it alone. I can understand how some people are reluctant to access care after negative experiences, but for some it is more about "empowerment" or wanting to have the experience on their own terms and I do think this is highly irresponsible, particularly if encouraging others to do it.

Then read deeper,
Leading cause of death is blood clots upto 6 weeks after birth.
And 33% of deaths are MH related between 6 weeks and 1 year.

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:29

nocoolnamesleft · 09/10/2026 20:19

There is never an ambulance on standby. There aren't enough ambulances to tie one up waiting for a home birth to go wrong.

Incorrect turn of phrase used: the ambulance centre was put on standby and they managed the crews to ensure that there was an ambulance if needed. The ambulance centre is 8 mins from my home, and the time it might have taken to get to me and get me to the hospital was less time that it would take to prep an emergency theatre and call a surgeon/obstetrician so it was deemed that there was no material disadvantage to being at home than in a labour room in a hospital. It was part of the process for a planned homebirth when my son was born. I had significant checks throughout my 3rd trimester to ensure I was a good candidate and my MW was part of a specialist homebirth team with considerable experience.

MyFairLady27 · 09/10/2026 20:30

Two very different things a free birth and home birth and never would I have picked the free way....Had all 7 at home the last being twins and lovely midwife's personal attention, loved it

whoshouldItalkto · 09/10/2026 20:30

Newname26 · 09/10/2026 20:29

Then read deeper,
Leading cause of death is blood clots upto 6 weeks after birth.
And 33% of deaths are MH related between 6 weeks and 1 year.

Yes - so the difference is even more stark -the proportion of maternal deaths occuring during pregnancy or the birth itself are considerably lower.

nocoolnamesleft · 09/10/2026 20:31

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:29

Incorrect turn of phrase used: the ambulance centre was put on standby and they managed the crews to ensure that there was an ambulance if needed. The ambulance centre is 8 mins from my home, and the time it might have taken to get to me and get me to the hospital was less time that it would take to prep an emergency theatre and call a surgeon/obstetrician so it was deemed that there was no material disadvantage to being at home than in a labour room in a hospital. It was part of the process for a planned homebirth when my son was born. I had significant checks throughout my 3rd trimester to ensure I was a good candidate and my MW was part of a specialist homebirth team with considerable experience.

And you believed that? If a cat 1 call comes in, and your reserved ambulance is all that is available for that call, it will go to it.

Rubyreds45 · 09/10/2026 20:32

rumerx · 09/10/2026 20:24

Home births are very safe if you’re low risk. I’ve had two, one with a midwife and one without (no midwife available)

You can be the lowest of low risk and still have a PPH that could kill you before you get to the hospital doors.

You can be the lowest of low risk and still have shoulder dystocia at birth which is FAR riskier and harder to manage in a home birth environment.

You can have the lowest of low risk birth and baby can still be born struggling and requiring immediate neonatal care which is not available at home.

seahorsessky · 09/10/2026 20:32

How many of you would ban homebirths/freebirths (I know they're not the same, but I'm thinking of the homebirth, with qualified UK midwives, that went wrong recently)?
Genuine question. At what point would you say a women can't refuse intervention, if a professional doctor/midwife says it is in the best interest of her/the baby? If she refuses internals? A CS? An episiotomy?
As far as I'm aware, she can refuse any intervention in a UK hospital, even if it is judged necessary by a HCP? So do you agree with that, if you would ban freebirths or home births when judged medically risky?

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:33

Rubyreds45 · 09/10/2026 20:27

I’m going to have to disagree with you on this. An experienced midwife is great, but they are not a miracle save, and in England- assuming NHS- there is no “ambulance on standby”. You could ring one when things go wrong, sure, but there isn’t one waiting outside your door.

Monitoring for the weeks beforehand makes no real difference either- things can and do go wrong totally unexpectedly and within minutes can be life threatening. My first pregnancy was textbook, perfect, no concerns no issues, my birth was textbook too. That didn’t prevent the massive PPH I had, nothing predicted or even raised the slightest concern for that and had I been at home I wouldn’t be here to tell the tale. The typical response time for an ambulance Cat A where I live is 6 minutes, the average time for an emergency vehicle to get from this house to the hospital is 11 minutes, that would have been too many minutes to save my life.

Disagree all you like. I had a wonderful safe birth with a midwife and her assistant, in contact with the hospital and ambulance team throughout. It was a specialist team set up to encourage and support home births for those who wanted them. That team has never lost a baby or mother in over 27 years - better stats than the two local hospitals can boast, in fact. They’re the professionals. Not MN posters.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 09/10/2026 20:34

There’s definitely a huge difference between freebirth and home birth, and I do acknowledge home birth isn’t suitable for everyone.

I currently follow somebody online who had her 1st baby at home last year very traumatic… something like 6 hours of pushing, baby’s heart rate dropped dangerously low, they had to do a huge emergency episiotomy to get him out & she was left with a prolapse meaning she had to have several surgeries very soon afterwards to hold her pelvic floor together. They told her to wait at least 18 months before getting pregnant again, but she got pregnant 4 months later and is about to have… another homebirth. I do think that’s a bit mad

OP posts:
AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:35

nocoolnamesleft · 09/10/2026 20:31

And you believed that? If a cat 1 call comes in, and your reserved ambulance is all that is available for that call, it will go to it.

Yep - I heard them speaking to the call centre. I was an uncomplicated birth. And had done my due diligence.

My body, my baby, my choice. And not a choice I took without considerable thought and consultation with the hospital team.

Genevieva · 09/10/2026 20:37

Her birth companion was not a qualified midwife. If she was, she would have called an ambulance and got her to hospital rather than telling her she was having a panic attack. One wonders if she had any medical equipment to monitor the baby’s heart. It’s truly shocking.

AstonUniversityPotholeDepartment · 09/10/2026 20:38

How many years ago was that? I once had an early miscarriage at home that developed into a hemorrhage and the ambulance took nearly an hour to get to me. They weren't hanging around, they literally got to me as fast as they could. I've also known ambulances to take about 40 minutes to turn up to children in the throes of an asthma attack that can't be controlled with an inhaler, and again, our emergency services treat children who can't breathe as top priority. That's literally as quick as they could do it.

I'd definitely be aiming to deliver in hospital next time around.

SleeplessRoads · 09/10/2026 20:38

I think it’s because there’s an element of survivors bias in the stories.

I don’t doubt that there are many examples of actual malpractice (as there are in all elements of healthcare), but for every smooth sailing (medically supported) home birth, there will be a traumatic birth in a hospital where women feel unsupported or medically traumatised by their birth, not because anything was done wrong but because it was traumatic and not smooth sailing and there wasn’t the time or ability to make sure Mum’s mental wellbeing was prioritised, because Mum and Baby’s life was prioritised instead.

I follow an influencer who talks a lot how her toddler’s birth traumatised her and she blames the hospital that she never got the “golden hour”, but she was put under general anaesthetic for the birth which she didn’t want. I doubt hospitals are doing this for fun on the whole, and actually she or her baby would have died if it had been done her way, or even had a home or free birth. But instead she talks about the trauma of her birth and how she never wants to give birth in a hospital again.

While I totally understand the trauma of that, I think there may be a case of misplaced blame. And because successful home births and free births and traumatic hospital births are the loudest voices, we end up with a skewed sense of reality as we don’t hear loads about happy hospital births.

Again this isn’t to doubt there are also malpractice stories in hospitals which is unforgivable - but I’m not sure, on the whole, that is as prevalent as it feels.

rumerx · 09/10/2026 20:38

Rubyreds45 · 09/10/2026 20:32

You can be the lowest of low risk and still have a PPH that could kill you before you get to the hospital doors.

You can be the lowest of low risk and still have shoulder dystocia at birth which is FAR riskier and harder to manage in a home birth environment.

You can have the lowest of low risk birth and baby can still be born struggling and requiring immediate neonatal care which is not available at home.

There are always risks in life, but I was considered very low risk and all went well. My second birth was an ‘accidental free birth’ as there were no midwives available that night.

nocoolnamesleft · 09/10/2026 20:41

AnonyMumAuDHD · 09/10/2026 20:35

Yep - I heard them speaking to the call centre. I was an uncomplicated birth. And had done my due diligence.

My body, my baby, my choice. And not a choice I took without considerable thought and consultation with the hospital team.

It was absolutely your choice. But they will not have kept an ambulance off the road, if emergencies were coming in, just in case. Can you imagine the investigation if someone else had died whilst an ambulance was held back just in case?