Local senco refused nurseries referral

[benandholli]

For my dd, just turned 4. She has always been very very intense but nursery never used to see it, until recently when she had started to kick off there too.

Can not share gets extremely angry if made to share.
Shouts a lot, very loud, very bossy.
Very resistant to requests, needs to be wrestled to get dressed, if left to get changed alone, she won’t do it/gets distracted. Point blank refuses to do things unless she is getting a reward out of it (loves stat chart)
Hits and kicks sometimes bites when angry, throws things at you, trashes the room.
She was a late talker but it came on all of a sudden and she speaks very well now, but she has developed a stutter, it’s when she is beginning to say something and she will repeat the first word upto 10 times.

On the other hand she is very caring and loves to help, she can be very loving, and she is very funny, likes to make people laugh.
It’s just like this red mist comes over her and she flips out.

Where do I go from here now the local senco has refused to to come out and observe her? Nursery manager said she has never ever had a refusal.
Lots of autism and adhd in the family so I’m sure she is neurodivergent.

I'd ask health visitor to meet the child, list your concerns, ask for autism screening and then ask GP for a referral to assess needs. Nursery can add their observations. I'd assume Senco has a very limited capacity (judging by our area) and that's why they refused but keep pressing. You could try Right to Choose but not until DD is a bit older.

this explains the role. Maybe they’re not a thing in some areas ? I’m still in the same area as I was when ds had input from the area senco

Thank you. I think it’s to do with how inundated they are these days with requests.
I think I’ll try the gp instead.

Different areas probably have different words for the same thing. Here it’s just called early years SEND team or PQUIP.

We had input from the LA senco for my ds. They provided support to nurseries across the borough including private nurseries. I am surprised they won't come out and observe her. I think your next step might be to talk to the nursery about an application for an ehcp. That would trigger a needs assessment. I would also ask your GP or HV about a referral to SALT for the stutter.

Thank you - yes as you say it must be area dependent.

I would ask the nursery to contest the senco’s refusal to visit. I assume it is an LA role? If your LA is anything like mine (and many others), requests are often turned down and have to be contested. I would also go to your GP and health visitor. I hope you can get it sorted.

Have you been referred to Speech and Language. That would be a good place to start - nursery can refer for that. Every county used to have multiple Area Sencos but they've mostly been cut - Somerset doesn't have any now. This might be why they are being so selective on who they prioritise. Also your health visitor could do some assessments and refer to Paediatrics if necessary.

I would ask the nursery for the name of the local Area Senco, find a contact email for the SEND department within the LA and email them to ask for a response to why they are refusing to come out and see your daughter.

Then make an appointment with your health visitor.

The preschool will have a senco too, request a meeting with them

Ask Nursery about claiming Preschool Inclusion Supplement. This would bring extra support via funding and bring her to the attention of the LA.

Area SENCOs or EYFS SEN advisory teams are there to support early years settings. Our LA also has an excellent SEN support service and they work with children from the age of 2 in all settings and providers.

Look at producing a one page profile with nursery staff

https://sheffkids.co.uk/resources/

Agree with SALT referral.
You might be familiar with this book
The Out of Synch Child Has Fun
Lots of practical activities for sensory needs.

Hope you get some support. You can request an EHCNA as a parent which you probably know.

Yes nursery has referred to SLT but yet to hear back. I will gutted if they refuse also !

It’s quite worrying the way things are going, just heard on the news that someone has come and said ASD/ADHD is being over diagnosed. So what are we supposed to do with our Sen children ?! Are they just not going to get support anymore ?

Can you just see the GP yourself without the report? This is what we did with DS. Not sure there even is a local area Senco here anyway.

Yes, things have got much harder in terms of getting a diagnosis. There's much higher demand. I think the world is much harder to navigate for ND children, so difficulties are showing up earlier and are more increased. And because there's more awareness there's more demand.

There is talk of offering support regardless of a diagnosis, which sounds great. But my experience is that it is incredibly hard to get schools to recognise need and put appropriate support in place.

It's really good that your nursery is supportive. I think like other people have suggested, just keep plugging away at all the options until you find a way into an assessment.

Right so you can do right to choose, but due to her age you need a referral from a paedtirican and you will need to travel to the provider as they wont remote assess a four year old. You go on the nhs traditional waiting list you will be waiting years.

YES it is over diagnosed, but not in children. Mainly adults who see a video and go "ooh I do that one thing I must be ND" and then manipulate the results. And i will die on this hill it does happen and it happens to much.

It sounds like this is an early years team, so maybe they want more evidence before they visit. Go through your HV or GP. For us the early years team didn’t come out until we’d already had SALT and HV documenting clear signs of SEND, and nursery had already tried multiple techniques and wanted to apply for an EHCP. If she’s responding well to reward charts then that’s good and means the nursery will be able to use that to manage behaviours.

Those who don’t know what an Area SENCO is &/or think all SENCOs work in schools should read the SENCOP. The role of the Early Years Area SENCO is explained in there. Although some LAs call them different things.

@benandholli why did the Area SENCO refuse the referral? Was there something specific that was missing? If DD is 4, is she a deferred summer born? If so, I have heard of Area SENCOs wrongly refusing referrals for these DC before. So if you don’t know the reason(s) for the refusal, I would ask why.

In terms of further advice for the nursery on how to support DD, the nursery could look to see if there is a different specialist teaching (e.g. a communication and interaction team) that will accept a referral. Although not all LAs have such specialist teaching services now.

If the nursery needs mean funding in order to provide support, they could apply for early years inclusion funding.

The nursery or you could request an EHCNA. If the LA agrees to assess, this has the benefit of an assessment that will include looking at how DD can be supported in nursery.

As well as a SALT referral, you could look at a referral to OT. In some areas, you can self refer to these. Some areas also have drop in sessions for early years, you could check if your area does.

Support in nursery is not based on diagnosis, but if you would like to go down the diagnosis route you can speak to the GP &/or HV.

I agree that some adults are milking it, but I do think there is also ALOT of undiagnosed adults out there too. I just think it’s so much more common than we ever realised, but these videos online aren’t helping are they.

Is right to choose the private route ?

Thanks this is all great information, if a little overwhelming but I managed an ehcp for ds so I’m sure I can do it again.

She didn’t really say, just that they were told to keep doing what they’re doing..

Sorry no she isn’t summer born, late September

Right to choose are private providers but the nhs pays them to do it to try and clear the back logs.

Yes theres many undiagnosed adults but this is the problem its those who are milking it taking away the support and diagnosisitics away from those who actually need it. It can be the same with children, many parents are told no your child doesn't have autism so they will continue to try different ways to get a diagnosis despite being told mutiple times no.

You can do it again. One step at a time. You do not have to everything all at once. I find it is helpful to make a list, put it into the order I would prioritise the tasks, and work my way through it. Plugging away at it.

I would ask the Area SENCO why they have refused and what needs to happen for the referral to be accepted.

You might also want to look at DLA if you aren’t already receiving it for DD (and DS). Then if successful the nursery can get Disability Access Funding. DAF is only a small amount of funding but every bit helps.

Right to choose is an assessment via a private provider who undertakes NHS work. Some ICBs have paused/capped RTC referrals/assessments.

I think in my area they are called Early Years Inclusion Advisors - we had one visit nursery to visit DS.

For anything behavioural I'd seek help from the health visitor service before the GP, personally. They can refer to SaLT, community paeds etc if needed.

Gosh every day's a school day! Apparently my area DOES have these people but as my DD went to a nursery near my work (not in our borough) and then to a private primary, I had absolutely no idea. It's a really rubbish aspect of our system that you don't know what you don't know and no-one tells you.

Anyway, you can do this OP! You did it before and you can do it again. Knowledge is power.

with the family history you should aim for a diagnosis.

Hi, i am an Early years send advisor (aka Area senco). Most areas have some sort of person like this this but it depends on their LA and therefore if they maybe only have 1 for the whole LA they may have strict criteria. We have many nurseries that quite frankly are not good at filling out the paperwork, we are very lenient on this and tend to then offer a phone call to find out more info but I know some of my neighbouring las dont and just refuse to accept the referral. Id do the following

• Find out why they refused to visit
• Ask the nursery what they currently are doing to support (do they have an IEP or SEN plan for her?)
• Ask if you can sit with the nursery and write a behaviour plan where you agree how you will both respond at home and nursery to unwanted behaviours. Be consistent.
• Contact your health visitor and ask for a development review
• Chase salt for advice. Our area has an advice and guidance line rather than referrals now.
• Look up your family hub and see if there is any other support e.g. we have an neurodiversity advisor drop in and our autism and adhd advisor is avaliable for parents to help them (no diagnosis needed).
• Look up demand avoidance strategies. E.g. rather than saying put your shoes on, you say i wonder what shoes you might want to wear today. Or simply xxx your shoes are by the door. Im not saying your daughter has this but sometimes the strategies can work wonders for children who are struggling with feeling like they dont have control (like toddlers)

If you want to DM what area you live in, I can find out a bit more about local support.