AIBU to think staying at home with children is undervalued?

[Amby99]

I’m not ignorant of the fact that staying at home isn’t financially possible or desirable for everyone, and I don’t think children who go to nursery are disadvantaged whatsoever . There are brilliant nurseries, brilliant working mums, and plenty of happy, healthy children being raised that way (and fulfilled and happy mothers)
However, I do wonder whether society (or the government) has become so focused on measuring “productivity” through paid employment that we’ve started to undervalue the work involved in raising a child.
Badenoch saying that the government doesn’t want to “punish working parents” in relation to childcare costs … it made me wonder why being a SAHM is so rarely viewed as valuable or productive in its own right.
Preparing my baby’s first solids, BF him, reading, playing, taking him outside, talking to him, letting him explore and generally being available. It feels like important work, yet because it isn’t paid it often seems invisible.
There are of course many advantages to nursery, and that work can be important for a mother’s identity, finances, career and mental health.
But why does the conversation seem to focus so heavily on encouraging parents back into paid employment, while choosing to provide that childcare yourself is rarely encouraged or valued in the same way? I’m not talking about mothers that sit at home all day feeding their child McDonald’s and claiming every benefit under the sun. I get why they may be encouraged back into the workforce and their children would be better off at nursery. BUT I’m sick of having to feel guilty of my choice to stay home. Every parent I know who was a parent in the 90’s stayed at home and it wasn’t so frowned upon.

I just think it should be seen as a worthwhile and valuable choice rather than something that needs to be justified because you’re “not working”.

It's quite simple and obvious. It's because those of us who don't find being at home with children mentally stimulating enough compared to working were referred to as having careers not jobs in your post (true, I'm a research scientist and was told hilariously by a rather bitter SAHM on here a while ago that I was simply unimaginative and therefore not an inspiring example for my daughter because of I used my brain enough I could make being a SAHM equally as mentally stimulating as being a SAHM, I was obviously just shit at being an interesting mum to my daughter and dreaming up enough activities 🙄 it's wonderful that she thinks she can push the scientific boundaries of human knowledge in her kitchen, but I promise you, she can't.) and then declared we were classist for just assuming everyone has a mentally stimulating profession because we're ignoring the people who just have jobs which are boring! That's why posters are coming for you, your pompous assertions that intelligent accomplished women who work hard are classist and don't give a shit about the receptionists when they say they get bored at home.

No one has typed out those words, obviously. But the model of having a mother at home raising children exclusively, up to school age is routinely held up as best practice on here. Yet it's a historical anomaly, as @ObelixtheGaul points out.

In the sweep of human history only a tiny percentage of families have organised themselves like this: it was really only a window between the end of WW2 to about the early 1990s when it was the norm and then only in Western countries and among relatively affluent families.

Working class children were expected to be economically active as young as possible, upper class ones were usually raised by wetnurses and nannies. Again, I'm not holding this up as an aspiration as I wouldn't want to raise my child according to either of these models.

But the idea that women working full time and using professional childminders ("farming them out" in the unpleasant phrase) is somehow the worst imaginable paradigm for raising young children shows how precious and silly we have become about it.

We're talking about some hours a day with a regulated, professional childminder or in a nursery with an individual or individuals who the child trusts and is paid to focus on their needs. It's pretty histrionic and precious to imagine that this is the worst outcome your child can face.

Well that’s not how I perceive it. Of course there are always one or two bonkers posters but that works both ways- there are occasional WOHM who claim being with young children is boring (I find it hard to get my head around that - I can honestly say I’ve always found my children fun to be with.) Equally we’ve had the usual sprinkling of bonkers stuff such as assuming WOHP don’t cook from scratch (can’t get my head round that one either- dh and I always have.)

the fact remains that the most important thing is raising happy well adjusted children. Which can be done by parents who work or parents who don’t.

no additional validation should be needed by either group. The reward is the joy of parenting itself.

If you're angry at another mumsnetter, take it out on her thanks, not me.

Akin to "farming out" is describing nurseries as "instustionalised care" rather than the early education settings they are and describing children who use them as "instustionalised" by people who haven't the faintest idea what it actually means to be instustionalised.

YANBU- it is undervalued at a societal level. I don’t agree with much that’s currently popular in modern society though, and value being a Stay at Home Mum extremely highly myself, as does my DH and our children, who are the only people who’s opinion matter to me. It’s the best way of life I’ve ever experienced.

I literally took those words from a post!

Your post!

If you and your family value what you do, then surely that's all that matters?

I don't understand what being "valued at a societal level" would look like. I don't feel that being a working mother is "valued at a societal level" either, but I don't think that really matters if it is valued by individual families.

I think society generally values good parenting, but I don't see how you could persuade anyone outside of your family to really care whether you WOH or SAH. As long as your kids are happy and well cared for, then that's all that matters?

I agree. I'm still none the wiser on how this "valued at a societal level" is measured or what it looks like.

There's always going to be individuals who make comments about stay at home mums. Just like they do about working mums. I don't think that's representive of society as a whole. That's just life unfortunately. As long as you and your family are happy with whatever decision you make, that's all that matters.

Oh I did at the time thanks. You're the one calling us all classist for assuming work is more mentally stimulating than engaging in activities at the mental level of a three year old though. It's not remotely classist to think that having other adults to talk to and a job that is too difficult for a three year old is going to be more mentally stimulating than spending all day alone with a three year old no matter how many wonderful activities you think for up for them. It's quite obvious why you're getting peoples backs up, the faux naivety is silly. All work has value, you're the one throwing out classist accusations.

But what would being valued at a societal level look like?

Day off?

No, you seem pretty angry to me. Although I'm not sure what I've done to you.

I think it has a classist vibe to erase people who don't have intellectually stimulating jobs that they love (probably the majority of people), and assume everyone has an engaging and rewarding career. I've also noticed the same with posters on here who have said people shouldn't stay home because they'll lose out on career advancement by taking some years out of work, which of course doesn't apply to people who have jobs with little opportunity to advance.

Many people would likely find having more free time (in between parenting) to pursue the things they find engaging and stimulating, or even to study part time to retrain in something they love, much more intellectually stimulating than their job is.

Also - you think being a stay at home mum means spending all day at home alone with your child, with no opportunity to interact with other humans, or pursue intellectually stimulating and engaging interests or hobbies? Hm.

Apparantly not as I see the individual accusing me of harassing her has quoted me yet again! As have you. And you look like you've got your hands full enough with all the other arguments you're having on the thread, so not sure why you'd want to weigh in on one of the few that doesn't involve you.

So at a societal level, all the main political parties bang on about is everyone being in paid work and pushing free childcare for babies from 9 months as if that is what mothers should be doing. It’s not. It’s very undermining. At a societal level, parents are being brainwashed that ‘experts’ can do better than them with many aspects of parenting. I push back very strongly against such views- I am irreplaceable to my children.

Ok. I agree. So if every parent thinks we all should be valued, why are working parents on here thinking that it's a personal insult if some of us agree that the OP should be valued?

There is much larger underlying issue going on than this debate covers.

Your comment about society valuing good parenting generally is being systematically undermined by the government brainwashing parents that so-called ‘experts’ can do better than them. Why on earth are schools now responsible for potty training and children cleaning their teeth?!

People criticise those who are dependent on their spouse, whilst being utterly reliant on other professionals, or their parents/ILs, themselves. It’s very hypocritical.

Im irreplaceable to my children and always will be but it didn’t mean I couldn’t have a career. What about your DH - could he has not been the SAHP or is he not irreplaceable?

I don’t recognise any of that.

The option needs to be there to support working parents without actually bankrupting them in the process.

The early years professionals I’ve dealt with have all been amazing and contributed hugely to my children’s wellbeing and development. That doesn’t take anything away from me as a mother, my kids have benefitted from lots of smart, caring people engaging with them.

The option is always there for those who want to stay at home to make that choice, as it should be.

I don't think she does want extra validation for being a sahm, she just doesn't want to feel like she's not doing enough by not going back to work.
I don't know why it deserves such catty remarkes!

Oh, and I personally felt valued when a lady I was talking to at a baby group whilst on maternity leave asked me ‘Will you be returning to work or spending longer at home?’ She was the only person with enough social skills and true respect for individual choice to ask in that manner, everybody else asked ‘when are you going back to work?’ In an assumptive manner as if it was a done deal- it absolutely was not for me.

People definitely need to think before they ask judgmental questions to virtual strangers for a start off! And generally mind their own business more.

Since when have schools been responsible for potty training and toothbrushing? There's been pretty clear messages from the government about children being "school ready" for starting school.

"Experts" can support children with a number of areas. Seeking advice from them does not make you reliant on then.But at no point have I seen a campaign from governments "brainwashing" them that experts know their own kids better than them. Perhaps you can share them? As well as the memo that schools are now responsible for potty training and toothbrushing over parents.

Unfortunately schools becoming responsible for potty training/cleaning teeth is because some parents will not step up and teach their children these basic skills.

I don’t know any conscientious, capable parent who doesn’t see this as their job. That has nothing to do with working / sah parents

A breastfeeding mother is obviously far more irreplaceable to a baby’s survival than Dad 😂