How can I support DD11 to prepare for music exam when any feedback is seen as an attack?

[seriouslynonames]

Dd11 is keen to do a grade 1 music exam and is quite able when performing the pieces. She is much less able at practicing!
She has to learn the pieces by heart and sometimes gets a bit wrong or misses out a bar or two of rest etc. If I flag any of the the errors, even in the most gentle way, she absolutely cannot cope with the feedback. I have tried reframing and even better if etc but sometimes she just needs to stop, go back a few bars and go over that part until she gets it right instead of continually doing it wrong.

She has ADHD, she also has quite strong PDA tendencies though has not been assessed for ASD so I am not surprised how she reacts and we gave up on piano lessons as it was such a struggle.

I have tried to ask her, gently, how does she feel when I correct her (e.g. stupid? Ashamed? Frustrated? Angry at me?) to see if I can find a better way of flagging the things she needs to work on without sounding like it's criticism.
But she can't articulate how it makes her feel (other than rage which is what I see).

The 30 min a week lesson isn't enough to get through everything, she is expected to practice but she won't do so unless someone sits with her, like a body double. So I can't just leave her to it and expect her to learn from the experience if/when she doesn't perform well in the exam because her brain doesn't work in a way that would allow her to learn from that (yet).

So I have to find another way of getting her to practice and spot the tricky bits and work on them.

Has anyone found a way of helping their young person practice and improve and not see mistakes as the enemy and not expect perfection etc?
Thank you!

Thanks @PITA22 yes we are reverting back to using the music for now

Thanks @Solasum yes we are using the abrsm accompaniment on YouTube. I ask her which she wants to do. I just tell her when she's singing the wrong verse otherwise she appears unaware unless she's reading from the words, which she is trying to avoid because she knows she needs to do it from heart

It doesnt sound like that instrument or maybe even music is for your DD as a hobby. Having had children that have tried many, many, many different hobbies that they (to differing extents) enjoyed but didnt do anything outside of their lessons, when they find the one that makes them tick, nothing needs to be said to them, because they want to do it, neurodiverse or not. I would set the boundary of if you dont practice there is no point doing the exam and then introduce a different hobby and see if there is more success and let the lessons come to a natural halt.

Why does she actually need to do exams? Can she not just learn for fun? If she does ever need to do them at some point, when she's a bit more mature, then she can jump in at whatever level she needs to. DH trained at a conservatory and never did a single exam, he says it's a very British thing to make kids do music exams!

In my experience you have to let go of the "it's a waste of money" mindset when it comes to DC with SN and afterschool activities. Yes, it may certainly feel like it sometimes, and it's disheartening when you don't see the progress that other children are making but they do learn something, even if it's not apparent for a few years!

I had similar with one of my daughters so interested to see the comments on here. We gave up - the child has to have the self motivation and discipline to do the work. I got to Grade 6 without my my mum sitting practising with me every day…

More worryingly we have it with GCSE homework!

Thanks @ZeroMotivationWithTeens we switched from piano to singing as she adores singing! So it's not that she doesn't want to sing. I think it may in part be the PDA like tendency that she doesn't want to sing what someone else tells her to sing (whether that's the book, the teacher, me or anyone else!)

Thanks @EntropicalFruit yes I am moving towards trying this exam and then just dropping the idea of exams if it doesn't suit her. She does listen to the teacher and sort of accept the feedback, she just doesn't use the feedback during any practice. So I think she could make at least some progress without doing exams and we can review after this exam (already booked and paid for). It does just seem to be the expected thing to do exams!

@Minasama yep I can see that we may have a problem with homework once she starts secondary, she says she doesn't believe in homework 😬 will cross that bridge when we come to it!

Can you record it played correctly by her teacher if necessary on your phone with a count in to start and then she can accompany that. She will immediately see her mistakes as she goes through it.

As others have said if you make it unpleasant for her she will give up. Don’t do that.

Are you sure she has to do all that, especially at Grade 1? I have done some singing exams with Trinity and there was only a Vaccai (a few bars in Italian) which had to be from memory. The chosen songs were from score. At grades 1 and 2 there was just one sing through too, of one verse and chorus so if there is a repeat in the score it was ignored.

It’s grade one, give it a rest. Let her music teacher teach her, and you just support her.

So just let her sing and dont do the lessons and point out to her that this way, she can pick what she wants sing as she doesnt want to do what other people ask her to do. I dont really understand what the issue is, she doesnt have to have lessons to sing, plenty dont...its not like a team sport where if you dont turn up to practice or a game you are letting others down.

She can't insist on having lessons until she can arrange and pay for them herself. She needs to learn about practicing. Tell her that she can only continue if she passed at first or second attempt, then leave it to her.

Thanks @LifeBeginsToday I will look at trinity. Not sure if the place she has lessons do trinity but it's abrsm she is doing so it's 5 pieces, 3 unaccompanied and one accompanied (I think it's 4, might be 3) but all from memory

@Boreded I am not teaching or trying to teach her, I am just trying to support her. She has a very particular way of looking at the world and at herself so what might work for others (leaving them to it) won't work for her

@ZeroMotivationWithTeens the issue is we have left off having lessons for a long time but she wants to have them but she doesn't want to practice. She enjoys the lessons. But after a while she gets frustrated that she isn't making progress (as validated by others such as an exam board). So we can revert to having no lessons but that won't be what she wants either.

I will trying getting her to record herself and see if that helps. I will look into Trinity exams and also just continuing with lessons but no further exams until she is a bit more mature and hopefully open to understanding that hard work is what gets you moving forward

Thanks all

Look up RSD- rejection sensitive disorder ( might be a different d word)

I would ask whether you can have time with the teacher, to discuss the diificulties you are having in supporting and encouraging your daughter - and whether s/he feels your daughter can make meaningful progress as her temperament/condition means she's not letting you help her. And she's not really able - it would appear - to reflect by herself on what's getting in the way of her improving.

I'm learning a musical instrument as an adult and cannot imagine being able to progress as a musician in the circumstances you describe.

Would your daughter progress more easily if she was studying more as a recreational activity in the shorter term? Some learners do skip grades rather than working through every single one.

I have a child just like this and it is mega frustrating. She's SLIGHTLY better at age 13 than she was at primary age when she first started taking music lessons. The only way I can really give any feedback or get her to do any practice is if I randomly start singing and sometimes she'll join in and we can get onto the pieces for singing and maybe that's useful.

The other thing you might try is let her grade you on stuff. My daughter had great fun once going through my sketchbook and marking my drawings out of 10. I didn't get very many marks out of 10, think 3.5/10 😂

*slightly better at accepting feedback or suggestions (she's a decent musician considering she does virtually no practice!)

I'm not sure i practised as such - more just played through pieces i liked - for the first 10 years of piano lessons! Then I got sick of people deciding i wasn't any good because I didn't do grades (and wanted a challenge) and chose to do grade 8. For me it was 100% the right decision not to do any of the other grades, it would've put too much pressure on.

I think music should be associated with pleasure/emotional release etc not marks. Too many people are pressured by parents or teachers and give up after reaching even an advanced level, because they see music as a chore rather than a lifelong companion or part of them.

Can you persuade your daughter not to do the exam?

I just put "pda society instrument practice suggestions" into Google and got some really helpful tips some of which I am already doing. Try it?

I just dont understand trying to find ways to make someone practise for something that they dont have to do. The feedback loop is...there is no need to have lessons if you dont want to practise. There is no point doing exams unless you commit to practise ergo there is no need to have lessons and waste money, you can still sing but no you wont progress like your friends, because they practise and at somepoint if you commit to practising we will be happy to fund lessons. Doing anything else or bending over backwards to try and accommodate is pandering and not learning any lessons of life, ie no one is born perfect at anything and everyone needs to practise to progress. Its grade 1 and if she cant understand and respect this this, there are bigger issues.

But pointing out her flaws isn’t working for her either. So surely it is better to just enjoy her singing and let her learn what works for her. Ask her how you can help instead of giving her forced feedback that she doesn’t want.

Just enjoy her…no need to critique if it isn’t going to be taken well, especially if she is young and had ADHD, you will only make your own life more difficult

Im not a musician. But my DD10 plays violin and we do Suzuki so everything has parental involvement and has to be played from memory. I think she may have ADHD or AuDHD but no diagnosis. It can be hard sometimes, but she loves music, and violin specifically, so it’s worth it.

she also hates me giving her feedback during practices and in fact generally struggles to practice at all. She also won’t practice without me, it’s like she hates me being there but actually does want me there.

things have improved a lot. Some suggestions.

1. i walk away from any practice that turns into a fight. It’s just not worth it and she is learning that she can’t explode at people who are trying to help.
2. Structure practice. We practice at the same time every time and have rituals around it (that are bribes I’ll admit) as we always go to the local shop together first and she chooses a treat.
3. we also create charts based on what the teacher has given her to do and she gets to tick them off as she does them.
4. I have listened to her feedback. Eg. She doesn’t like me correcting during the piece. We have discussed what is and isn’t helpful from me. When I get it wrong (often) I apologise.
5. her teacher helps by sometimes giving her specific practice instructions like “let your mum assist with x” as she takes instructions from her teacher more seriously.
6. Get her teacher to give her some tips on what makes a successful practice. Ours warns of the risk of an incorrect practice, is you practice doing it wrong you will have to unlearn that!
7. listen. This is a big Suzuki thing, but we are encouraged to listen to the recordings often so that we are extremely familiar with what it should sound like. This will help her know when it’s wrong without you having to tell her. We often listen in the car rather than in a practice.
8. as others have said get her to record and listen back, and ideally compare with the ‘right’ recording. Get her to make some notes about what to change next time.
9. Find a routine that works for her. Most music teachers seem to recommend short practice every day/most days. For my daughter a smaller number of long practices works better (although as she gets more serious this will probably no longer work).

As a previous poster said, as she has ADHD, she’s highly likely to have Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It means that any slight criticism, whether real or perceived, will feel incredibly hurtful to your Dd. I found RSD possibly the most challenging part of DD’s ADHD.

https://www.neurodiversitysupport.co.uk/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria?utm_source=google&utm_medium=wix-pmax-leads-campaign&utm_campaign=google-ads-campaign-2026-9-14-0cd06665&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=24244348524&gbraid=0AAAABEu-2t82-JcUeaphhOtdwWZfQqeo0&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8ofWBhCHARIsANBj4LvEK_Skehuv3WvbMsTxCEWS-unK2G9jsLnvdpNXxTmJDq70V8KcfIAaAoWuEALw_wcB

Thanks for the helpful ideas, I will have a proper look through.

Just to be clear, I am not critiquing every little thing, far from it. It's mainly when she gets some words wrong /in the wrong place repeatedly as she then has to unlearn the wrong words, which is harder. But I still take the point that it is not received well and that she doesn't like it so I need to stop doing it. If I say nothing she asks me what I think so I have to say something. I could say it's great even when it's not but I don't know how helpful that would be either.

I realised a couple of years ago she likely has RSD and that explains why she feels so strongly. But I obviously haven't learned enough about it to stop trying to give any feedback 🤦‍♀️. I will do as @RidiculousVehicle suggests and look up PDA and instrument practice and look back at RSD resources to help.

Thanks @NoKindofAtmosphere for your tips on what works for you, will see what I can put in place. We tried scheduled practice times with piano, only twice a week for 10 mins and even that was too much. We tried bribes but she has never been one to respond to carrots or sticks.

I will try to get her to talk to me about how she feels about it all and what might help but the usual answer is I don't know or I don't want to talk about it.

I do really appreciate hearing others' experiences and all the ideas. Many we have tried and haven't worked but she is slowly maturing and it might be worth trying some again, so thank you.

And @ZeroMotivationWithTeens yes we do have bigger problems but that's not what this thread is about

Does she really enjoy the lessons, or struggles with idea of changing anything from how it is now?

If she enjoys the lessons - I'd leave her to work with her teacher, and be upfront with both about your role (you support classes but do not force practice) but also expectations for DD - not everyone needs to sit exams. You drop off and pick up - but she does , or not, the practice.

If she struggles with change - there is no best solution, dropping exams as well as keeping current practice will be both difficult for her, in that case I'd make executive decision what's least distressing. It may be she fails her exams. It may he you drop the music altogether or change a teacher to one that's supportive of DS playing for fun, not to pass tests. It may be you keep things as they are now and review in future. There is no 'best' solution I think...

This is going to be really irritating. I'm not being horrible I'm genuinely telling you something I've noticed that might help how you interact with your DD. Have you noticed that you have got really annoyed by people telling you what to do on this thread I.e leave her to it? Even though lots of them were telling you about their own experiences so it was informed criticism. Maybe your daughter feels like you did then when you criticise? The advice was valid but you didn't want to hear it.

My view on music lessons and most lessons of any type is that they have teachers for a reason. My kids have never enjoyed my input into anything unless it's been of the free practice variety, like reading or singing together or doing crafty stuff and getting it wrong and working it out together. I think that you can nag her to practise but lay off the criticism when she's doing it - because she can't hear and use it anyway so what's the point?

I also think that music is valuable even without achievement or being particularly good at it because it makes your brain work differently from anything else. And that progress looks different in different people and some of it you can't see/hear. I do appreciate that's difficult to trust when you're paying for lessons though.

Essentially, nag her to practise, don't offer criticism. But I know you don't like that advice!