AIBU to expect a dog-free area in a restaurant?

[Diorling]

Hi,

I recently met up with my family for lunch at Bills at Clark’s Village in Somerset. It’s not an area I know, but looked to be good for a meet up. it was a lovely sunny warm day and folks were out enjoying their shopping. It was a great atmosphere.

It was pretty empty in Bills as we were early. The waiters were lovely and showed us to a table, and we were busy looking through the menu when I smelt a fairly unpleasant smell. I looked up, and a family were being sat at the next table. The smell was coming from their dog, which was being sat right next to me, rather than on the other side where there was an empty table. It wasn’t a dog that sat nicely on the floor and went to sleep either - it kept on trying to move towards me and the family.

Now I like dogs, grew up with them, and have had my own, but one of the children was attacked at the park by a random one once ( it ran up to him), and he is now terrified by dogs. The dog kept edging towards him, and he kept trying to shrink away along the long bench seat as far as he could. Not only that, but frankly the smell was appalling.

i spoke quietly to the waiter, explained the issue, and he moved us to another table in the opposite corner. It’s a large restaurant, so problem sorted. Except it wasn’t. Within 5 minutes they had shown another family to the table next to us - despite most of the spaces still being empty. They too had a dog, but this time it was lifted onto the seat (and later laps of the family). Again it was right next to us. Whilst I love dogs I don’t expect to have their nose by my elbow and frankly don’t think it’s very hygienic.

I complained to the restaurant but they explained they were dog friendly, and even had a dog menu (‘Bone Appetit’).

Now that’s fine - if I had known it. But as I pointed out, there were no signs anywhere to that effect, nothing on entering - and apparently no dog free area for those who prefer not to eat near dogs. Obviously we won’t go there again (a pity, as staff are lovely and the food was good - if you have dogs, and are round there, it’s a great place to go.)

But for the rest of us, I just don’t like dogs around when I eat out - and if they have to be there, then surely their place is sleeping quietly on the floor?

AIBU?

Not in the slightest - I just think it’s extremely rude, offensive and tiresome when people make comparisons between dogs and children. They are not, and will never be, the same.

You changing a nappy on a cafe table is more gross than a dog minding it's own business on the floor.

The reason people are talking about shit is twofold:
The thread is about restaurants and shit and restaurants do not mix.
Dog shit is a scourge in our streets and parks.

I agree - but I’ve never done that nor have I ever seen anyone else do it

And I have never seen a dog shit in a cafe.

Dog shit is not a scourge in cafes.

I wouldn't agree with changing nappies in cafes, that's gross. Food mess isn't unreasonable, a cafe would be equipped to clean food mess from tables and floors. A chemist or small shop isn't going be set up to clean dog piss so that should be on the owner that chose to take them there.

To be fair neither have I but others have. I have seen them wee though, and they have their shit covered arses all over the floor so we’re splitting hairs really.

Allergy/Dog-Free Zones: Every restaurant has designated dog-free areas if you or other guests prefer not to sit near dogs. You can request this when booking or talk to the staff.

This is what it says online - for next time, although it sounds like there wont be one!

I think the common denominator is not kids or dogs. It is just people in general.

I love dogs. I have dogs. I think its f**ing ridiculous that dogs appear to be brought everywhere.
Dogs who are trained properly can be left at home for a couple of hours while people go out to eat. If your dog has separation anxiety then do us all a favour and eat outside. They do not need to be sat in restaurants!!

Me and my mum go to cafes and she brings her dog. She can't leave him for 8+ hours (she lives an hour away from me), so he comes with her. I also want to see him too, as he is family.

I voted YANBU
On two occasions recently meals out for me have been spoilt by either dogs or their owners. The first was in a small restaurant in Cornwall where OH and I had gone out for a meal on our own and like all the other guests that night had to put up with the constant noise made by the two dogs that a table of 6 had brought in with them.
The second time we were out at lunchtime nearer to home and I couldn’t take my eyes off a couple who were sitting at a table outside which was directly in my line of vision. The man had a dachshund sitting on his knee and was feeding him bits from his plate as he was eating. Once the solid food on his plate had been eaten he moved on to what I assumed to be Hummus and fed this to the dog from his fingers, then offered it the plate to lick clean followed by his glass of water. His partner then did exactly the same whilst he went to pay the bill.
I was tempted to bang on the window at the time, and once they’d gone regretted not mentioning it to staff whilst they were doing it. I did tell them what I’d seen when we paid our bill, but to be honest they seemed unconcerned and it’s put me off returning. Common sense tells me that plates and glasses are well washed but I don’t like the thought of eating and drinking from plates and glasses that dogs have.

Thank you for the list. That’s very helpful. I accept that I did not look up the specific website first ( though did look up the Clarks Village website). I accept that is my problem. However I suggest you read back through ALL my posts. I clearly mentioned that none of us had reason to be aware of the situation given that the Bills near all of us never had an issue with dogs. Also - and critically - we would have been fine had the two dogs stayed on the floor sleeping quietly. Neither did so. In fact through these posts I’ve realised that both dogs / owners were breaking the ‘rules’ Bills laid out themselves for their doggy visitors.

I love dogs. I would have had another one myself if it wasn’t for the family situation. I live in a village and when I had my own yes I used to take mine to the village pub - not often, but occasionally - BUT my dog would lie quietly under the table on the wooden floor of the bar and not bother anyone else. That wasn’t the case here.

I’d like to thank everyone for your thoughtful and reasonable posts. I’ve read every single one very carefully. I accept I should have checked Bills website - but it’s clear that had Bills followed their own rules, we wouldn’t have had a problem.

I might add that what has made our little lad so terrified of dogs was firstly the unprovoked attack in the first place from a dog, that I mentioned at first, and secondly several months later, whilst on holiday camping, we had a further very difficult situation. Our holiday was nearly over when late in the evening the campsite owners sited a mobile camper opposite to us. They had 5 very reactive dogs in that camper. They never stopped barking, including all during the night. They were big dogs - not pure breed but very like dobermans. The owners put up a rather dodgy looking expandable fence round the van and let the dogs into it. We tried to move but there was no space left. We told the dog owners how scared our lad was of dogs and they assured us their dogs were no problem. We expressed concern about the fence - ‘no problem, they never jump out’.

Early the next morning their biggest dog jumped over their ‘Fence’ which then collapsed - and came charging into our tent opposite - inside - where the children were sitting at the table colouring - and of course you may imagine the result. The owners then blamed us for getting their dogs excited! How? I was outside making breakfast ( it was cereal so I wasn’t even cooking anything) the dog charged right past me whilst everyone else was still in our tent. The campsite owner wasn’t interested. We packed up and left.

I understand that dogs are part of a family. However reading through all of these posts what seems to have changed is the attitude of some owners to their dogs, ranking them on a par with children. They even refer to them as fur babies. But they are not babies - they are still dogs. There is then an entitlement that whatever the ‘fur babies’ do is cute and ok.

I love dogs still. I respect the choices of establishments that admit dogs. But surely it’s only fair that establishments that do admit dogs must also ensure that the said dogs follow the rules they themselves have set, to ensure that the rights of all are respected too?

There's always going to be two camps around "dogs" and from what I've witnessed on here some people clearly hate all dogs and therefore feel that they are the entitled ones who believe that they should never be expected to be less than 100 feet away from a dog! I'm a dog owner and yes I take her to dog friendly establishments. I walk her beforehand so she lies quietly beside me and would never dream of taking her to somewhere that wasn't dog friendly. I choose where I eat out that accommodates dogs as she's almost always with me. The staff always make a massive fuss of her, bringing a dish of water and treats and love to give her a fuss. I get that for some people with allergies this may restrict where they can eat out but dog owners are also restricted by places that don't allow dogs. As an adult I understand and respect this. Perhaps others should do to before actively hating all dogs. It's unfortunate but some people have such fixed views that they can only ever see their point of view. On the flip side, some dog owners really do annoy me when they take their untrained and yappy dogs into places just because they can. It gives all other dog owners a bad rap and in my opinion fuels the fire of those that don't like dogs. Consideration all round should apply.

I get that for some people with allergies this may restrict where they can eat out but dog owners are also restricted by places that don't allow dogs

The difference is someone with an allergy hasnt got the choice to leave the allergy at home or with someone else. Its not a choice, in the way owning a dog is.

I am not a dog hater, but I think that dog owning has become more popular, and that increases the chance of encountering annoying dogs/owners! A dog lying down under a table in a cafe/pub i might not even notice and wouldn't be worried about. Several dogs in a pub at dinner time yelping, pulling , barking constantly is a different thing. Or dogs weeing or pooing indoors. (This has happened in my workplace a few times)

I am not sure that there are two camps around dogs. Some people are pretty neutral. I can see how they enhance the lives of many and that is a positive. Personally I would not want to own one, but that does not mean I do not respect the right of others to do differently.

But I am increasingly being pushed in the direction of an anti dog camp by my experiences with them. I cannot get away from them. I am disabled and making my way out on a rollator walk results in dogs running up to me and jumping up, putting me in danger. And frequently their owners just laugh it off - it is not funny to me. I have no wish to be put in danger nor covered in slobber and mud. The fact that their owners think this is OK is very disturbing. When an owner responds sensibly I always thank them.

This thread is not about camps - it is about hygiene. For decades it has been recognised that dogs in food shops and eating places are unhygienic, but a strident dog lobby has developed that is forcing companies to capitulate. I think that is very unfortunate, both for hygiene reasons and for the dog "community" who are gradually accumulating an equally strident opposition, which is helpful to no-one.

I have many friends with dogs - they are good responsible owners and take my needs (and those of others) into account. But what do we do about those whose dog ownership has got out of proportion, who treat them as their babies and are unable to see that others might legitimately not share their view and do not want to be pestered by them or to eat out with them?

It is pretty hard to remain neutral and tolerant at the moment and the situation is worsening. On one crowded train journey there was a yappy jumpy dog making a total nuisance of itself.

There are countries and states that ban dogs in food shops and eating places, and most European countries insist on specific hygiene conditions around this. But how can these conditions be policed? It is such a shame that there are people around who believe they have a right to do as they wish and go where they want with their dogs regardless of considerations for hygiene and the well-bing of others.

Not true at all.

Exactly - a dog owner is not “restricted” they can just leave the dog at home

Leaving a dog at home appears to have become something that owners are more and more reluctant to do. It feels utterly ridiculous to me. We do not take our children everywhere we go, and rightly so. We take them with us when appropriate and not when it isn't.

Seeing a person with a dog in a dog friendly cafe does not mean that person takes their dog everywhere - you’ve seen a tiny snapshot of their lives. Taking a dog to a place that allows them isn’t inappropriate or entitled despite your issues with it.

As per previous posts I dont hate dogs, I hate it if they jump up at me or get my clothes dirty (happened several times when out for a walk or run - usually with no apology from owner) And if dogs are very noisy in a pub or restaurant or wee/poo indoors, i feel that makes an unpleasant experience. But in other situations I am quite ok with dogs.

I think some people mn, and RL are either unaware or dont consider that not everyone is comfortable with, or likes, dogs (that doesnt mean people actively hate them!)
A few pps have talked about all the people in the cafe, the staff loved their dog and made a fuss of it, or that it made everyone smile. IRL the people that felt neutral/uncomfortable with the dog just didnt interact, or chose not to go to that cafe.

I agree. It simply isn't true.
If most places had dog free areas it would cut down on the number of nuisance dog threads on mumsnet.

I agree that there are loads of sensible dog owners, but it is the irresponsible ones who treat them as babies and don't train them that give all dog owners a bad name.

I’m not taking the rap for bad dog owners - my dog will never approach you, let alone jump up, he’s not a barker, he won’t sit on a human seat and won’t eat off my plate - I am going to continue taking him to places he’s allowed to go. If he’s no longer allowed, we’ll happily adjust.