To think this is dangerous advice from a midwife?

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Hi All,

Caught up with one of my friends earlier today. She told me she is pregnant. Earlier than the 12 weeks, and I confessed I am too! Lovely stuff.
Then she told me she had already had an appointment with her midwife and it didn't go well, mostly because my friend told her she would like to breastfeed her baby and then made a joke about it being years to wait for a glass of wine. The midwife told my friend that the guidance has changed, she said she didn't need to wait, as soon as the baby has been born she can drink. Infact, she literally said she can drink and drink and drink until she is wasted. The caveat was though that she would need to be not too far gone so that she couldn't hold her baby - holding the baby seemed important, being drunk whilst breastfeeding her baby was completely fine. But being wasted was ok because it didn't affect the milk, was absolutely fine to be off her face.
I have my first appointment next week and I'll be asking my midwife the question. But I was always under the impression any drink would enter your bloodstream and into your milk as well as potentially affecting your milk supply.
Are we both being unreasonable to think this is not only dangerous advice but completely unacceptable?

Best to check your facts before you get all outraged isn’t it?

Why shouldn't she? Personally i can't understand why you wouldn't want to be 100% sober with a baby in the house.

I am pleased that the actual science has been helpful. There’s no need to artificially restrict your life for an imaginary risk. There are enough real worries in life without us needing to invent more! I wish you and your friend both easy pregnancies and births and enjoy your babies!

Nobody is suggesting any adult should be caring for a baby while drunk, that’s an entirely separate issue. Babies have two parents and often an extended family. Even if breastfeeding the mother does not need to be in charge of the baby and is entitled to have breaks, time with friends etc. No mother should falsely be told that she will somehow harm her baby by feeding the baby breastmilk produced after she’s enjoyed some drinks with friends, for example. No breastfeeding mother should be falsely shamed or made to feel she has to abstain from drinking alcohol when she wishes to because those who are ignorant of science falsely believe her milk will then harm her baby when we know for a fact that it will not. If you never want to drink then don’t. Women who do should know that they can do so and still breastfeed perfectly safely. Or do you believe we should ban breastfeeding mothers from doing any activity that you personally don’t enjoy even though there is no risk from them doing so?

These comments are utterly pathetic now. The comparison to orange juice is to demonstrate that the amounts are trace amounts at a level which occurs naturally in foods classed as “non-alcoholic” because these amounts are so infinitesimal and insignificant that they are completely irrelevant.

OK. You are a scientific miracle and chemistry and biology don’t apply to your body. Perhaps you should offer up your body for medical research.

The Royal College of Health and Safety Experts recommends that for the safest approach to life, it is best to never get out of bed. In fact, being born comes with a 100% risk of death so it’d be best to ensure you aren’t born at all; your life will then be entirely risk free.

This ^^ makes about as much sense as what you posted.

Fortunately, we don’t live in a Kafka novel and such nonsense can be ignored.

I think the NHS and RCM position / guidance on this errs on the side of caution because they don’t want to be seen to encourage mothers to drink alcohol. I was told that it is easier to say officially “no drinking” because they can’t trust everyone to just stop at 1 or 2.

ETA: basically, they don’t want to be sued…

For the actual research: https://laleche.org.uk/alcohol-and-breastfeeding/

🤣🤣🤣

Given @LifeOnEnceladus oh so funny response to the helpful advice it seems the cautious advice is sound.

If it truly was ruled 20+ years ago it was safe to drink and breastfeed it hasn't filtered through thoroughly enough because I was informed it was harmful, as was my friend in her pregnancies

Were you specifically told that about breastfeeding though, or did you ask about breastfeeding and was the response a more generic ‘no, it’s not advisable to drink alcohol with baby’.

It’s hard but when dealing with patients you really need to work to a lowest denominator. The concern with alcohol is not breastfeeding but looking after the baby properly, which alcohol can affect. It’s also not recommended to use terms such as ‘in moderation’ or ‘a few’ as that means different things to different people. To some that is 1 or 2 standard drinks, to others that means ‘only’ one case of beer or bottle of vodka. So, it’s easier to be fuzzy and say none to avoid a dead baby (through misadventure/neglect and a parent saying ‘but you said I could have a few drinks’). You might think that’s a silly example but it’s not. You really have to meet some people to believe it.

And there I was thinking that I was a bad Mum to Be for having 2 pints at a Madness gig when I was 2 months pregnant!

I suspect the 'wasted' comment, if the midwife did use that word, was a bit of light hearted hyperbole intended to reassure your friend that a glass of wine would be fine.

Not actual NHS advice.

This is old news surely? My eldest is 16 and currently making her own lunch, and when she was a baby the NHS said best to avoid drinking, but all the science showed that you'd have to be practically hospitalised through drink for even the slightest bit to make it into breast milk. I was a breast feeding counsellor with the NCT for years, this was common knowledge.

Obviously there is a large cross over between breastfeeding and co-sleeping, which is where the recommendations change for obvious reasons.

As others have said it is fine to drink a bit of wine whilst bf

Exactly

I was told the safest time to have a drink was while actually feeding the baby as by the time baby needed another feed in a few hours the alcohol level would have dropped.

The message was very much moderation and don't think you can't have any rather than 'get wasted'. They did caution about being sober enough to care for the baby and being extra careful about falling asleep while holding the baby etc