To think this is dangerous advice from a midwife?

[CookieCrumbleCrumbs]

Hi All,

Caught up with one of my friends earlier today. She told me she is pregnant. Earlier than the 12 weeks, and I confessed I am too! Lovely stuff.
Then she told me she had already had an appointment with her midwife and it didn't go well, mostly because my friend told her she would like to breastfeed her baby and then made a joke about it being years to wait for a glass of wine. The midwife told my friend that the guidance has changed, she said she didn't need to wait, as soon as the baby has been born she can drink. Infact, she literally said she can drink and drink and drink until she is wasted. The caveat was though that she would need to be not too far gone so that she couldn't hold her baby - holding the baby seemed important, being drunk whilst breastfeeding her baby was completely fine. But being wasted was ok because it didn't affect the milk, was absolutely fine to be off her face.
I have my first appointment next week and I'll be asking my midwife the question. But I was always under the impression any drink would enter your bloodstream and into your milk as well as potentially affecting your milk supply.
Are we both being unreasonable to think this is not only dangerous advice but completely unacceptable?

I mean the medical advice and research about the miniscule amount of alcohol that passes through breastmilk says otherwise.

When drinking in moderation, obviously.

It maybe correct but I don’t think they should be promoting it.

If that is the NHS Guidance then it is factually wrong. Scientific studies have proved that alcohol does NOT transfer into breast milk in any quantity that would have any impact on the baby at all. So no, it will not “cause developmental issues”. It’s utter nonsense. Obviously nobody should get drunk when caring for a child but there is no reason whatsoever why a breastfeeding mother has to abstain from alcohol.

How utterly shocking for them to be publishing such unscientific nonsense which has been proved categorically to be false. One would think this merits a formal complaint about deliberate misinformation. Why do people want to make things difficult for new mothers, especially organisations that are meant to support them! Appalling.

That's absolute bullshit.

I remember having a few rows on here when i was breastfeeding 7 years ago. I did a lot of research and concluded the NHS advice was rubbish and seems I was right!

Basically OP if you do the maths with the actual data from scientific research on this someone would have to drink several bottles of spirits before alcohol in their breastmilk was aby higher thn than the trace alcohol levels found in fruit juice, or could have any effect on their baby at all.

Obviously by that point the mother would have other problems such as being so drunk they’d be unlikely to be conscious and probably be in hospital with alcohol poisoning.

Alcohol in breast milk is simply not a valid concern and it’s pseudoscience to pretend that it is. It’s good the midwive gave accurate information even though it appears the NHS is publishing incorrect guidance on its website! Then mothers behaving perfectly safely and appropriately will be subjected to ignorant busybodies giving them disapproving looks if they have a glass of wine with a meal in a restaurant etc.

Can the midwife who posted and also confirmed the scientific fact that having a drink while breastfeeding does NOT affect your baby explain why the NHS still has incorrect written information on its website, which will stigmatise breastfeeding mothers for no reason for doing something perfectly safe? Shocking that patients are deliberately misled by NHS published “guidance”.

It’s a bit like with those horrendous leaflets manipulating statistics to try to encourage women into having “natural” births and not giving an objective comparison of risks between vaginal births and caesarians. The way women are treated by the NHS in pregnancy and post-birth is shocking.

I’m glad I’ve seen this thread and learnt something new. I’ve always assumed you shouldn’t drink when breastfeeding so I am happily corrected on that. I will admit I was agog on holiday a couple of weeks ago when at dinner a woman was breastfeeding her newborn whilst drinking a glass of wine. My pearls are now thoroughly unclenched in light of this thread!

OK, well I messaged my friend last night, she said this morning that the midwife said it like - technically you can drink and drink, you can be wasted and it won't affect your milk or baby. Which judging by the comments here that's pretty spot on. I read the NHS guidelines too, and they seemed pretty certain it does, but experience and actual mothers count for much more than online guidelines.
And don't worry, she made clear yesterday she didn't intend to drink at all but now that I personally know I could it's nice to not think social situations, especially Christmas, might be limitations.
I agree with those saying it's not necessarily what she said but how she said it, but even still, this is baby no. 2 for me and I was told to avoid all alcohol when pregnant and breastfeeding last time, so it's very conflicting! It her baby no. 3 and she has always been told to avoid.
I don't think she co sleeps, I'm sure she said something about the fear of rolling onto the baby is too much for her to even attempt it years ago when I said I couldn't not Co sleep because I liked sleep and its the only way we all got sleep at night!
There's some really helpful stuff in this thread, I hope if anyone in future comes across it and is worried about drinking and breastfeeding they find this a D are a little more reassured.
Thanks to everyone for commenting. Really appreciate it.

And don't worry, she made clear yesterday she didn't intend to drink at all

But why would we be worried? The overwhelming message on this thread is that the research says it is completely fine.

Other then not co-sleeping with a baby and the effects of hangover with a baby is a absolute killer the midwife is correct and you can drink alcohol when breastfeeding.
If you are being a milk donor then they ask you not to but that's a small percentage of women who breastfeed. Alcohol is not recommended at all in pregnancy.

Society isn't used to the change though. I remember getting proper stares bf DS2 whilst having a glass of wine out at lunch with a friend....its like people thought there was a straw straight from the wine glass to his mouth!

That's really odd you were told differently last time, or didn't come across any information yourself that contradicted that? My kids are 11 and 9 and that I was definitely clear that I could drink when I was breastfeeding them? I did lots of times.

I think your friend has exaggerated what the midwife said or didn't get across her tone of voice, which was probably jokey. Obviously anyone can see you shouldn't get 'wasted' while looking after a baby, but you'd have to be really 'wasted' for it to affect your milk.

Advice does change as understanding grows mothers who had children many years ago might use the phrase 'pump and dump' about getting rid of milk after a night on the wine. But it has been understood for a really long time now that this isn't necessary.

Exactly, you can drink normally! There should be no judgement at all of mothers doing this!

It was always the practise to drink- particularly stout because it helps the milk flow. All wet nurses drank , they were famous for it. As the poster about says everything in moderation- always be suspicious of advice which says to completely stop something. As with everything health advice changes over time- everything in moderation can stay with you forever.

It's the advice, but I would also be unhappy to be advised that getting drunk with a baby was OK (even if not breastfeeding), if she was really told that.

Personally I didn't drink anything during pregnancy or five years of breastfeeding as I didn't want to risk it.

That’s just not true.

This is a direct quote from the NHS website:

Alcohol can pass into your breastmilk and then into your baby when you feed them. The Royal College of Midwives recommends that for the safest approach, you should avoid alcohol completely when breastfeeding. But an occasional drink is unlikely to harm your baby especially if you wait at least 2 hours after having a drink before feeding.

this is absolutely not the same as categorically stating (or claiming…) that alcohol doesn’t affect breast milk and won’t harm a baby.

https://www.nhs.uk/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding-and-lifestyle/alcohol/

I did bf during hangover and the baby vomited all of it soon after feeding my personal experience I felt so bad and never drunk until i stopped bf again my personal experience

I think the advice not to get drunk and BF is because there is a risk to falling asleep and smothering the baby with your boob or co-sleeping and rolling onto them etc.

I've always gone by if I've had too much to drive then probably best to reassess. That and being rough while being sleep deprived with a baby is no fun at all.

The advice @CookieCrumbleCrumbs is that if you are too drunk to hold the baby, you are too drunk to feed the baby. Even at this stage though your milk wouldn’t be ‘alcoholic’. But, no one should be ‘wasted’ if they have a baby to look after, it’s dangerous and irresponsible, no matter how you are feeding your baby you need to be clear headed enough to know what you’re doing.

A couple of glasses of wine, or a few G&T over the course of an evening, especially with food, is absolutely no problem at all. It’s important you don’t fall asleep with your baby if you’ve been drinking though as it can reduce your responsiveness and proximity awareness, so if you do have a drink don’t co-sleep.

75 year old here, when I bf mine used to have a glass of the dark stuff each evening, good for iron levels & helping baby sleep!

The book Expecting Better is a great read around what you can and can’t do during pregnancy and afterwards. Really recommend. By Emily Oster

Drink won’t enter your bloodstream,it needs to be digested and filtered etc first.
Eating a box of chocolates won’t cause breast milk to be sugary

https://www.nhs.uk/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding-and-lifestyle/alcohol/

Midwife is WRONG. Most posters are wrong, haven't rtft yet, shocked

Paediatrician told me ‘it’s not really worth risking alcohol in pregnancy or breastfeeding’ so I didn’t touch a drop. Breastfed for nearly 3 years without alcohol and actually never really went back to drinking. He did me a favour.
Do your research and make up your own mind, but don’t listen to just one person (even though I did). I had a later midwife for dc2 who told me it was best for me to have a natural birth because anything else wasn’t as good. She went on and on and made me feel shit. I requested a new midwife immediately, although I should have complained in hindsight. Had an epidural. Lovely stuff.

Yip. Absolutely correct advice. Lactation consultant who is very highly regarded in my area told me that too.

I think i heard somewhere that you can drink on anti biotics and they still work. They tell you not to in case you forget to take a dose. Also I was told by a mw that you can drink in moderation when preg as only tiny amounts, if at all, pass to baby.