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Lucy Letby - Specifically those who think she is guilty…

832 replies

BEAchDays2 · 23/09/2026 07:30

I’ve just been reading massive amounts of posts of Facebook following the new doc out about LL. (Blame a long train journey!) and it got me thinking, those who still think she is guilty what are your reasons?

It does feel like the tide has turned generally. I haven’t watched the new doc yet, likewise has anyone seen it, and is it worth it?

OP posts:
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Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 17:28

Yarniac · 23/09/2026 08:29

Honestly, I read all the trial transcripts, and came to the same conclusion as the jury. I suggest anyone wavering do the same, because it was eye-opening.

Everything said on Facebook or elsewhere that claims to be new evidence simply isn’t. It’s a misunderstanding or misrepresentation (wilful or otherwise) of the evidence presented at trial.

Explain how a baby died due to overfeeding or insulin in a bag of TPN how has that caused death, Was it air up an NG tube these are made up causes of deaths. Anyone with any medical expertise that has worked on a NNU would know otherwise.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 18:16

KidsDoBetter · 23/09/2026 08:51

The conspiracy stuff on this is nuts. The barrister who speaks on her behalf does not persuade me. He is not lawyerly or measured.

A jury sat through months and months of evidence and convicted her of the vast majority of all the charges against her.

Every normal appeal channel has failed - if there was ANY chance that there was new evidence or flaws in her conviction I do think leave to appeal would have been granted.

People don’t want it to be true. The idea that this number and severity of collapses in small but not otherwise unwell babies could suddenly cluster in this way could not be caused by the (sadly common) shortcomings of a neonatal unit. Babies don’t die like this and it was soon clear to the consultants that something very odd was going on.

The fact that she is white, blonde, young, attractive plays huge part in the movement behind her
IMO.

The emotional affair with the doctor, her attention seeking messages after the deaths , Facebook searches on the babies’ families suggest to me she became addicted to the drama when a baby collapsed and died. The medical notes she had at home by the bucket load - hugely incriminating to me. Souvenirs. Every clinician has patient confidentiality drummed into them - those were delicately taken at the time. couldn’t have been a mistake. One sheet maybe - not the volume that were found.

These notes are being at her home is not something that can be explained by stress during the subsequent investigation. Whereas all the scribbled notes - they could have been as as result of that stress so I am less compelled by them.

Far from being a scapegoat (doctors blaming nurses to cover up their clinical failures) - sadly I think the nurse managements strident defence of her stopped her being halted earlier and made doctors afraid of voicing their fears.

She is guilty IMO

I Think just from you comment you have no way researched this case or the evidence. Have you even listened to the expert panel? Again from your comment I doubt it.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 18:18

TallulahBetty · 23/09/2026 09:03

She was found guilty by a jury of her peers. Of course she is guilty.

Was else happened to those babies? How else is it explained? Other than a MASSSSSSSSIVE, unfortunate coincidence?

Go listen to dr lee expert panel then come back

Yarniac · 07/10/2026 19:27

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 17:28

Explain how a baby died due to overfeeding or insulin in a bag of TPN how has that caused death, Was it air up an NG tube these are made up causes of deaths. Anyone with any medical expertise that has worked on a NNU would know otherwise.

I’m not interested in arguing with you, thanks.

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 19:29

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 17:28

Explain how a baby died due to overfeeding or insulin in a bag of TPN how has that caused death, Was it air up an NG tube these are made up causes of deaths. Anyone with any medical expertise that has worked on a NNU would know otherwise.

She didn't kill any baby with insulin or overfeeding, those babies didn't die. Surely you know all this.

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 19:35

DistantEarlyWarning · 07/10/2026 07:02

Well done. You have completely undermined the post you’re agreeing with by demonstrating that you, a potential juror, are completely swayed by dodgy statistical inferences.

If she's guilty they're not dodgy are they? Honestly wish that chart never existed at this point, they placed her cot side for every collapse bar the insulin so it wasn't really needed anyway.

eastegg · 07/10/2026 19:43

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 18:16

I Think just from you comment you have no way researched this case or the evidence. Have you even listened to the expert panel? Again from your comment I doubt it.

I’d missed @KidsDoBetter ‘s post. They were spot on about MM not being lawyerly or measured, I know exactly what they mean. He said in one of his interviews, I think it may have been to Judith Moritz but that doesn’t matter, ‘I wouldn’t be representing her if I didn’t believe she was innocent’. He shouldn’t be talking to the media about his beliefs or otherwise about his client’s guilt or innocence. And he shouldn’t be taking or refusing cases dependent on those beliefs. Not really relevant to the safety of LL’s convictions, but it does give me a sense that the poster’s judgment may not be way off.

Oh, and research takes many different forms, and some of it may not be as illuminating as you think. YouTube and the expert panel publicity stunt doesn’t really cover it you know.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 20:27

viques · 23/09/2026 08:51

She sounds like a very complex and not very stable personality, a shame her problems weren’t picked up during training when issues were raised that could have indicated she was unsuited to such intense and emotionally draining work.

I have no doubt she is guilty, I do have doubts about her mental capacity.

This might help with your less informed opinion.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MPWOCfivRE

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 20:30

TallulahBetty · 23/09/2026 09:03

She was found guilty by a jury of her peers. Of course she is guilty.

Was else happened to those babies? How else is it explained? Other than a MASSSSSSSSIVE, unfortunate coincidence?

How many of them worked in a NNU? That would be a jury of her peers.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 20:44

AtIusvue · 23/09/2026 08:49

I’m more curious about why so many, let’s face it white women, don’t accept that that a plain, mousy brown haired, white woman, killed these babies and won’t accept the conviction.

Maybe they are more likely to have a greater understanding of neonatal medicine.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 21:06

eastegg · 07/10/2026 19:43

I’d missed @KidsDoBetter ‘s post. They were spot on about MM not being lawyerly or measured, I know exactly what they mean. He said in one of his interviews, I think it may have been to Judith Moritz but that doesn’t matter, ‘I wouldn’t be representing her if I didn’t believe she was innocent’. He shouldn’t be talking to the media about his beliefs or otherwise about his client’s guilt or innocence. And he shouldn’t be taking or refusing cases dependent on those beliefs. Not really relevant to the safety of LL’s convictions, but it does give me a sense that the poster’s judgment may not be way off.

Oh, and research takes many different forms, and some of it may not be as illuminating as you think. YouTube and the expert panel publicity stunt doesn’t really cover it you know.

Think this was after her conviction, course he is allowed to have opinion. Lots of money in high profile court cases but anyone with an iota of a moral compass wouldn’t want to support a killer. I always wondered why OJ Simson’s lawyers took this case on( wasn’t Kardashian’s Dad involved), think it took him to an early grave.

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 21:57

2021x · 23/09/2026 10:11

This is an example of weak evidence.

The person walking in could have been misinformed, told she was dangerous, and then filled in the gaps herself.

Their memory of the exact events could have been poor

LL could have been observing the patient to see what the issue was

LL could be incompetent

The person may have misread the situation as an emergency when it wasn't

The alarms may have been faulty- this also does happen, especially in ventilators

The alarms may have gone off and LL was observing to see if they were meaningful. As a clinican you are trained to not just listen to technology.

She may have administered treatment and was observing for the effects before she escalated.

I grant you that, to an untrained person without hospital experience, this would seem like a big deal, but it happens often that an arriving member of the medical staff misreads a situation.

But Ravy Jayram perjured himself because he didn’t tell the jury there was an email found saying Lucy had called him to review this baby, also Neonatal nurses are taught to look & listen to see if the babies right themselves. He also at the time didn’t report her why not if he thought she was killing babies.

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 22:03

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 17:20

But the problem is they may have not understood the evidence. It would be be like asking you what a brain surgeon did wrong in his surgery you have 3 options. How would you know which option to choose with no background in brain surgery? Did he actually do anything wrong? You only really have the prosecution telling you she did it she had no real defence.

That would probably only serve to help the defendant. They'd have to be really sure when it's a medical case, and they were.

The cops that tasered that old guy in the care home got off assault charges, the Shoreham air show pilot got off on a medical technicality. It's very hard to get a guilty verdict in these types of cases. Why can people not just accept the jury were sure?

Catpuss66 · 07/10/2026 22:10

Passaggressfedup · 23/09/2026 10:42

She became addicted to the high of the drama. She liked the attention of being a main character in someone else’s tragedy. She also had an obsession with the older Doctor and valued his attention more than she valued the lives of the babies. I’m not sure she thought of the babies as human beings, more a tool at her disposal to get the attention she needed
This is exactly my psychological analysis of Lucy. She didn't seem to meet the profile, but there were many signs. She grew up being the complete centre of attention of her parents. She was desperate for love and having a family, children of her own. It wasn't happening and this was making her extremely anxious.

Her actions were both punishing those who were having what she thinks she deserves to have herself, a family and babies, whilst getting the dramatic attention she craved. Her rumbling notes, even without trying to interpret each phrase, do show a very emotionally and psychologically disturbed person, especially for her young age.

Anyone who works in those high stress areas enjoy the ‘drama’ we wouldn’t work in those areas otherwise. She was at the beginning of her career 10 yrs later you start to burn out so start looking for another role either management or education as physically exhausting but also emotionally. It takes its toll.

Oftenaddled · 07/10/2026 22:27

eastegg · 07/10/2026 19:43

I’d missed @KidsDoBetter ‘s post. They were spot on about MM not being lawyerly or measured, I know exactly what they mean. He said in one of his interviews, I think it may have been to Judith Moritz but that doesn’t matter, ‘I wouldn’t be representing her if I didn’t believe she was innocent’. He shouldn’t be talking to the media about his beliefs or otherwise about his client’s guilt or innocence. And he shouldn’t be taking or refusing cases dependent on those beliefs. Not really relevant to the safety of LL’s convictions, but it does give me a sense that the poster’s judgment may not be way off.

Oh, and research takes many different forms, and some of it may not be as illuminating as you think. YouTube and the expert panel publicity stunt doesn’t really cover it you know.

When a lawyer is working pro bono, of course they can take cases according to their belief that a miscarriage of justice has occurred.

In their paid work they are part of the taxi rank system and take clients without believing in guilt or innocence, but McDonald's work on Lucy Letby is unpaid.

Oftenaddled · 07/10/2026 22:31

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 22:03

That would probably only serve to help the defendant. They'd have to be really sure when it's a medical case, and they were.

The cops that tasered that old guy in the care home got off assault charges, the Shoreham air show pilot got off on a medical technicality. It's very hard to get a guilty verdict in these types of cases. Why can people not just accept the jury were sure?

Edited

Well, the jury wasn't all that sure - the eleven members who made it to the end of the first trial only convicted Lucy Letby unanimously on three cases

But - people concerned about the safety of the conviction are often concerned about information not disclosed to the jury, so the concern is that the jury might have made a different decision if fully informed.

Bollihobs · 07/10/2026 22:32

Firefly1987 · 05/10/2026 23:51

So a few things that stood out to me from the link-https://lucyletbyinnocence.com/leaks/op_hummingbird_leaks.pdf

which oftenaddled thinks isn't the least bit damning to Lucy Letby. Ok then.

Here the consultants are going through their concerns (I'll just post a few)-

SB - of those 9 we reviewed initially, 6/9 collapsed between 000-0400, which was highly unusual. One of the action was to review the period prior and nothing was found (will share these reviewed) that review also noticed a significant number of collapses. SB - following on from that thematic we discussed the nurse (Lucy) but no action taken. I shared the report with IH prior to the COC inspection (Feb) at this time the nurse had been put on day shifts for mentoring reasons

Q: Confirm how many that Nurse has been present?

SB - the nurse was present in all but one of the deaths

Q: if third party involvement would you expect to see the same indicator?

SB - it is relatively easy to manipulate fluid, to administer drugs and or too block an airway

SB - there seems to be a theme with multiple births (triplets & twins) and the more stable infant being the one to collapse
SH - case of Baby [I&S] twins, 1 twin was on CPAP — but baby [I&S] (not needing any respiratory support) was the one that collapsed, from clinical perspective neither were anticipated to collapse but clinically the one on respiratory support was more vulnerable

SB- to put in perspective consultant who joined us from Crewe, he has never experienced anything like this in 5 years as consultant
RJ - we all have concerns, nothing significant changed over the years to explain the deaths e.g. the changes in patient numbers, staffing, do not explain the number of deaths or collapses.

SB - survival rate for babies over 32 is nearly 100%, for 6 of our babies to have died who were over 32 weeks, to die is not right.

There is an association with a member of staff who was present during the majority of instances when the babies unexpectedly deteriorated. When this member of staff was put onto day shifts for 3 months, no sudden collapses occurred during the night. Previous to this change in her work pattern, in 6 out of 9 deaths, the arrests occurred between 0000 and 0400. When this member of staff was no longer working on the unit (July 2016- present), there have been no neonatal deaths on the unit and no unexpected or unexplained sudden deteriorations. This member of staff was present on the unit during the deterioration of the [X] Children who died (Child A, C, D, E, I&S, I&S, Child I, I&S, I&S, Child O and Child P).

The gestation at birth of the babies who died was between 27 weeks and 40 weeks. 6 babies were >32 weeks gestation. The redesignation of the unit from July 2016 (only permitted to care for babies >32 weeks gestation) cannot therefore be the only reason why there have been no deaths or sudden unexplained deteriorations of babies on the unit since July 2016.

Then this from John Gibbs I think-

Initially, we felt Lucy was just unlucky in happening to be involved in more of these infants than other nurses but this association become steadily more worrying especially with recurrent sudden collapses at night that stopped when Lucy was moved off nights and then, on one occasion (only that I'm aware of), when Lucy covered a stable infant during a colleague's coffee break during which that infant unexpectedly collapsed.

Dear God that makes for horrible reading but thanks for sharing that @Firefly1987 - it really does make your blood run cold to read in such stark detail how it was unfolding and dawning on the consultants what was happening. "When this member of staff was no longer working on the unit (July 2016- present), there have been NO neonatal deaths on the unit and no unexpected or unexplained sudden deteriorations." and "recurrent sudden collapses at night that stopped when Lucy was moved off nights"

Honestly too awful for words.

eastegg · 07/10/2026 23:33

Oftenaddled · 07/10/2026 22:27

When a lawyer is working pro bono, of course they can take cases according to their belief that a miscarriage of justice has occurred.

In their paid work they are part of the taxi rank system and take clients without believing in guilt or innocence, but McDonald's work on Lucy Letby is unpaid.

I admit I’d completely forgotten he was working pro bono and yes you’re right therefore that the cab rank rule doesn’t apply.

The core ethical duties of a barrister still apply though. He really ought to be conducting himself in the same way as any other criminal case and that means being careful with the media bearing in mind duties of independence and to act in best interests of the client. He hasn’t just said he believes a miscarriage of justice has happened, he’s said he wouldn’t represent her otherwise. What happens if she were to confess to him, by the standard he has set he would stop acting, and the public perception would then be damaging to her. The client’s best interest are rarely best served by being so publicly unguarded. That’s what I was trying to say, badly.

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 23:49

Oftenaddled · 07/10/2026 22:31

Well, the jury wasn't all that sure - the eleven members who made it to the end of the first trial only convicted Lucy Letby unanimously on three cases

But - people concerned about the safety of the conviction are often concerned about information not disclosed to the jury, so the concern is that the jury might have made a different decision if fully informed.

Short of someone else coming out and admitting they did it and framed her (and left the confession note and handover sheets under her bed) there is simply far too much pointing towards her having done it. So there's really nothing not disclosed to the jury that would make one iota of difference. That's why I can say with absolute confidence that Shoo Lee etc al are wrong.

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 23:53

Bollihobs · 07/10/2026 22:32

Dear God that makes for horrible reading but thanks for sharing that @Firefly1987 - it really does make your blood run cold to read in such stark detail how it was unfolding and dawning on the consultants what was happening. "When this member of staff was no longer working on the unit (July 2016- present), there have been NO neonatal deaths on the unit and no unexpected or unexplained sudden deteriorations." and "recurrent sudden collapses at night that stopped when Lucy was moved off nights"

Honestly too awful for words.

You're welcome! Everyone should read it, especially anyone who doubts her guilt. Healthy babies just collapsing for no reason, not only that but not responding to resuscitation. At least one of them suddenly showed signs of life long after CPR had been stopped, the theory being that the air embolism blocking their circulation had finally become dislodged. Air in lots of the x-rays in very unusual places.

Other staff members took time off but Lucy never did, nor did she ever question what on earth was going on. Just happy to come back in on her next shift like nothing ever happened.

Catpuss66 · 08/10/2026 00:22

Firefly1987 · 01/10/2026 23:02

Well Colin Ferguson has been retired for at least 10 years so I guess we can safely dismiss any of his opinions too. Also wasn't a neonatologist.

Wasn’t talking as a vascular surgeon?

Catpuss66 · 08/10/2026 01:39

Firefly1987 · 07/10/2026 19:29

She didn't kill any baby with insulin or overfeeding, those babies didn't die. Surely you know all this.

Think she charged with that the overfeeding one.

Oftenaddled · 08/10/2026 07:15

eastegg · 07/10/2026 23:33

I admit I’d completely forgotten he was working pro bono and yes you’re right therefore that the cab rank rule doesn’t apply.

The core ethical duties of a barrister still apply though. He really ought to be conducting himself in the same way as any other criminal case and that means being careful with the media bearing in mind duties of independence and to act in best interests of the client. He hasn’t just said he believes a miscarriage of justice has happened, he’s said he wouldn’t represent her otherwise. What happens if she were to confess to him, by the standard he has set he would stop acting, and the public perception would then be damaging to her. The client’s best interest are rarely best served by being so publicly unguarded. That’s what I was trying to say, badly.

McDonald has already said he won't be representing Lucy Letby in any coroner's or criminal court proceedings - they will use KCs.

I think you have to accept that there is a point where you are juggling two possible disadvantages, not just diverging unaccountably from a smoothly functioning system. McDonald could stay quiet, of course, but he would lose certain advantages for his client in doing so, and has chosen not to.

Oftenaddled · 08/10/2026 07:20

Bollihobs · 07/10/2026 22:32

Dear God that makes for horrible reading but thanks for sharing that @Firefly1987 - it really does make your blood run cold to read in such stark detail how it was unfolding and dawning on the consultants what was happening. "When this member of staff was no longer working on the unit (July 2016- present), there have been NO neonatal deaths on the unit and no unexpected or unexplained sudden deteriorations." and "recurrent sudden collapses at night that stopped when Lucy was moved off nights"

Honestly too awful for words.

You need to remember that that report was written to pique police interest in investigating, by consultants who never flagged that proportion of deaths as suspicious in any other correspondence
The claim that incidents followed Lucy Letby from night shifts to day shifts is manifestly untrue - the first analyses of unexplained collapses in the same document, before her name was revealed to Evans, shows that for a start. The hospital downgraded and stopped taking such fragile babies when Lucy Letby was taken off the ward, so obviously there were fewer incidents after that.

Oftenaddled · 08/10/2026 07:23

Catpuss66 · 08/10/2026 01:39

Think she charged with that the overfeeding one.

Evans sometimes added overfeeding to his media claims about the deaths not caused by air embolism in the media (a mixture of air and fluids in the stomach) before abandoning that theory altogether in favour of everything being caused by air embolism

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