To think that this survey is at odds with what the government is telling us ?

[ThreadGuardDog]

The results of a major UK survey into disability benefits has suggested that 49% of the public support these benefits and would support more being spent on them in the future even if it meant higher taxes. This seems to fly in the face of everything the government is telling us about the need to reduce them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4grdk95vgno

So you would be ok with someone watch you on the toilet? Or have a bath?

You said upthread that you don’t claim benefit, so I’m wondering how you’ve reached the conclusion that PIP is too easily claimed if it’s not from personal experience. As l said upthread, in over twenty years in disability support in which l assisted with benefit applications and accompanied claimants to assessments and appeal tribunals, this is absolutely not my experience.

As you yourself have very clearly articulated, not being able to get in the bath is a small element of the majority of illnesses. You state yourself that no one gets PIP just for not being able to get in the bath, so why would they need to see you do that?

It is hard for you to imagine how people who don’t claim benefit experience the benefit system? Really? Perhaps through our own employment experiences, which appear to be very different to yours, but equally valid. Or our own immediate family members? You can’t imagine either of those scenarios?

If someone struggles with getting in and out the bath, they will be struggling in other areas too.. which their GP will know about.
The whole picture gets looked at.

I don’t understand the question. I haven’t commented on whether l think it’s feasible to be paying more tax to support higher benefits.

Exactly. So why are you asking me if I’d want someone to watch me in the bath??

Sorry, you’ve lost me. You said you hadn’t claimed benefits. I was simply asking how you’ve formed your opinions without direct experience of the processes involved.

You are the one who thinks self reporting should not be a thing.... so why not have a HCP watch you struggle in a bath in a DWP office? To prove you struggle.

Because that was your own example. If what you’re saying is that it would be easy for someone to lie, then logically the only thing to be done is to observe.

You don’t understand the question of how much more tax you personally would be prepared to pay? I don’t know how to phrase it so you will understand. You work, you pay tax at a given rate. How much MORE tax than you currently pay would you be prepared to pay to support people with disabilities?

You’re lost because I said my experience is through my own working life and immediate family members?

I understand the question but l don’t understand the context in which you’re asking, given that l haven’t indicated whether l would support higher taxes or not.

I'd be interested to see the demographic of the people who completed the survey.

I don't disagree with disability benefits on the whole but I don't agree that people with ADHD, Autism, some mental health issues etc for example receiving them. They should receive any medication / on-going treatment needed but no additional money especially if they are working.

Also they should be means tested as people on high incomes can receive them.

Oh, I have had some cunt try this with me on here.
Work out what you pay in tax, then work out what percentage of that goes on welfare.... then work out what goes on UC, and then work out what goes on people who are on LCWRA or PIP..... you can't make your mind up.
Then work out what you are actually paying the person on you are confronting... it will be 0.00001p at least. Fuck all. And that is the insight and opinion you get to have on how they "spend your money".

Which gives no context whatsoever.

Nope. I said direct reporting needs to be massively reduced because people can and do lie. At no point did I say people need to be watched in the bath, because, as PP said, PIP isn’t paid for not being able to bath. It’s paid as part of a wider medical condition which should be observable. If it affects your daily life to the point it scores the points necessary, that is visable.

“Some cunt”? Lovely.

The problem with means testing is where to set the thresholds. Disability benefits are universal because disability is universal and traditionally, means testing thresholds are set very low, which would mean that people would lose out on support for the sake of being a few pounds over the limits set. I think the only way it would work is to set a high threshold over which it would be reasonable for someone to be responsible for their own extra costs, but l’ve no idea what that would look like.

Yes, some people are. If the words I use are an issue, then you need to look a the bigger picture.
Disabled people accused of lying etc...but you are more concerned about "cunt".

If PIP is to be means tested, then it should not be based on households, which means testing is based on currently.
PIP... the 'I' is Independent.

What’s your understanding of direct reporting ? Given that PIP is not paid in respect of the condition itself but the effect on daily life, who better than the disabled person themselves to say how they’re affected ? The self reporting is only as far as the application form is concerned. Once the claimant gets to the assessment stage, it then becomes a matter of defending everything they’ve reported and producing evidence to support it.

Yep, agree. It would have to be based on personal income. I’m not in favour of means testing because it’s a race to the bottom, and as with all benefits, the thresholds would inevitably be set low and there would always be those who would miss out on a lot of support for the sake of a few pounds.

I haven’t accused anyone on here of lying. I HAVE come across many people in my working life and in my immediate family who absolutely have been lying to successfully increase what they claim. Conversely, I’ve also come across many people at work and in my immediate family who are unable to claim what they actually need. One affects the other.
And your bad language is your own concern but, like your been patronising, it doesn’t help your argument.

If people are so honest, no need for HMRC at all, we could all just report what we earn and pay the relevant tax. Alternatively, employers report what we earn. Why do you think the government chooses the latter?