To think that this survey is at odds with what the government is telling us ?

[ThreadGuardDog]

The results of a major UK survey into disability benefits has suggested that 49% of the public support these benefits and would support more being spent on them in the future even if it meant higher taxes. This seems to fly in the face of everything the government is telling us about the need to reduce them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4grdk95vgno

Lots of people who are disabled don’t claim PIP - more don’t, than do. The fraud rate is negligible. Also, it makes complete sense that disability has increased since before the pandemic - covid itself has already disabled many and will continue to disable more with each wave due to the very nature of the virus. In addition, we have a health service that runs very hot and is easily overwhelmed, with long waiting lists during which health conditions worsen.

How does one decrease the benefits bill with an ageing population?

Its means tested and there are much stricter age and residency conditions. It’s also not possible to claim DAA past retirement age - it then transitions into a retirement pension for unfitness to work.
If this system is broadly similar across Europe it’s not hard to see why the number of people who consider themselves disabled is very much lower than in the UK

France has a younger retirement age, the older you get the more likely to be disabled.

Most people are not going to say disabled people shouldn't be supported. If the question was should there be more strict checking on benefits to stop people getting benefits who shouldn't that would be a different answer.

Why do you assume fraud and not rising demand?

NHS waiting lists for both physical and mental health means people are ill for longer. This means at any given time a higher number of people need support. The pandemic both increased physical and mental health problems and reduced available treatment. Plus Brexit impacts. Plus long term underfunding.

The fact some people don't understand how mental illness can make it very difficult to work in a modern workplace (as opposed to being a farmhand or road sweeper or scullery maid) is an education issue in the population.

No one wants to talk about this reality.

Plus rising pension age means more people become physically unwell during the working age window. No one wants to discuss that either.

I would like is to stop and think about why eg PIP has gone from £14billion in 2018-19, to £27 billion currently with a projection of £41 billion by 2030. Obviously the pandemic was a massive driver of ill health.

But we need wraparound policies now to prevent at least some of the ill health that is slated to happen by 2030. That would hopefully save money in the long term as well as giving people better lives.

I would want to see the numbers for those getting disability benefits for adhd or l1 autism.
but also see a vague total for how much is spent supporting the (larhely men) paralysed in accidents like the lad diving in the swimming pool abroad the other day. Because the costs of that even for 1 person as they are likely young at the time.

disability rates will rise due to

• high rates of prem babies surviving
• pension age rises. Its already going to be 8y for women 3 for men

once we do identify the adhd/asd genes and even now the higher rate of milder diagnosis it may affect how many dc those people choose to have. (Dc1 doesnt want any kids).

Potentially also true nhs faiñing are leading to higher diability rates due to waitlists and pooewe cancer care and identification in uk

Cuts to all preventative and support services by the previous government was a false economy. Drug prevention, alcohol prevention, diabetes prevention, heart disease prevention, obesity prevention, mental ill health prevention - all these save money.
But they were cut by foolish ministers.

Invest in healthcare (with big focus on keeping healthy into old age), invest heavily into support and community services. Careful and detailed planning is required, and funding obviously.

52% of the population is in receipt of benefits so it’s no surprise a similar proportion of the survey respondants would vote for benefit increases. Bit like asking geese to vote to ban Christmas, surely.

True. But there has been a big rise in the UK in younger people claiming benefits.

I am not surprised by this polling, because I think a lot of people are more pragmatic and compassionate than our media would have us believe. I also think a lot of people in the working world know people in receipt of PIP and know how much they need it, and how clearly it is not a “lifestyle choice”.

There is currently a lot of heat around benefits and a definite attempt by sections of the opposition to paint big cuts as inevitable. I really hope the government won’t be so short sighted and will realise getting people back into work actually takes investment, and that punitive cuts will just push up government spending elsewhere.

Well there is you answer then. They have a lower disability rate (20% in France) because their healthcare is better than ours. When you have a health system that has been chronically underfunded with prevention cut, long waits to see a specialist, unable to access a GP, you are going to get sick and injured people medically neglected to the point they end up becoming disabled.

Yes after 15yrs of a progressively shittier health system that is entirely predictable.

@WantALieDown
I would like is to stop and think about why eg PIP has gone from £14billion in 2018-19, to £27 billion currently

Because those figures include the millions of adult DLA claimants who were transitioned to PIP. They aren’t all new claims for newly disabled.

There are plenty of checks in place already, before anybody is able to claim anything. As you could find out one day, if you are unfortunate enough, to have too.

When the rising "benefits bill" is discussed, the key things that are frequently overlooked are:

• the majority (50% - 2/3rds) of the social welfare bill goes on the elderly, mostly in the form of the state pension. As we have an ageing population, this is going to continue to keep increasing through sheer time, and unless we drastically change how we look after those on pensions there is nothing anyone can do.

• with the ageing population comes increased health care requirements across the population, pushing up the bill for care.

• If you really want to "slash" the benefits bill, mathematics and logic says you'd have to start with the pensioners. I'm not sure any govt has the appetite for that.

• among those who are not of pension age, we are a strikingly unhealthy people: overweight, inactive, poor diets. Compounded with cuts to support and healthcare services, it means the "bill" for the working age is higher than it should be.

In other words, the problem is not a minority of individuals who "sponge". The problem is a systemic failure to plan for our ageing population (which has been obvious for decades) and invest in first-line healthcare.

In other words, the problem is not a minority of individuals who "sponge". The problem is a systemic failure to plan for our ageing population (which has been obvious for decades) and invest in first-line healthcare.

^Spot on.

That’s a small survey of only just over 4.5k people. I think there is a lot of is it the right type of disability thought amongst many members of the general public as well.

The number of people with ADHD claiming disability benefits has doubled in the last three years. It’s bonkers. Sickfluencers on TikTok are profiting from the situation. I’m not suggesting fraud in a mendacious sense but it’s clear there are people receiving money from the welfare system who shouldn’t be.

Louise Casey has said the system is broken. I don’t know why people continue to suggest it’s all fine and we’re evil for wanting change.

I don't think anyone denies it shouldn't change but it shouldn't be at the expense of disabled people. It's funny that no one has ever suggested looking at why so many people have to go to tribunal and win. I read somewhere that has cost millions of pounds

if you label everyone as disabled they will all qualify for benefits.

No they won't. Have you even seen the pip criteria?

I’ve seen the figures. Why are they so much higher than other developed nations which also experienced Covid? Why do we have a disabled population that’s so high?