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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I was put in an unacceptable situation regarding SEN students toileting needs?

189 replies

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 20:43

I am genuinely not sure and would appreciate second opinions on this. Today was my first full day as an early years TA apprentice in a mainstream reception class and I'm totally overwhelmed. I've never worked in a school or with SEN students other than some volunteering.

A non verbal 4 year girl with autism soiled her clothes and I was asked to take her to the toilet, change her, and walk her back to class. It was difficult but I managed. Later, she did it again but pooped. I was told again to take her to the bathroom and change her clothes. I was not given any training or safeguarding information regarding personal care prior to this. I cleaned her up as much as possible and then tried to get her in fresh clothes, at which point she became very distressed and refused to get changed. I couldn't let her walk around naked obviously but struggled to get her dressed, she wouldn't wear her trousers and then refused to come to class and escalated into a full meltdown - hitting her head, throwing herself against the floor, kicking and lashing out at me. I couldn't leave her alone but they're was no one else here so I called out to another teacher who offered to help take her to lunch but told me I would have to deal with another SEN boy who has also pooped himself and change him too. Later the same day I was told to supervise 4 SEN children outdoors alone. The teacher also informed me that a new SEN could would arrive tomorrow and I would be in charge of looking after him outdoors while the class learns inside and that I would be doing the first girls toileting needs and training her from now on.

Aibu to feel like I should have been given some support or training on personal care, particularly regarding SEN students? Or been given more information regarding these students, and that it was a lot for one day? I'm not a SEN TA and while I love all the kids and it's part of the job, I worry too much responsibility will be passed into me and I would like to be able to fulfill it safely. I'm just super frazzled and while I did the best I could at the time I'm just feeling bad about myself like I messed up.

OP posts:
twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 22:28

Yes I just joined one now and there's a wait but that's fine, better than me waiting until I really urgently need it and having to wait then

OP posts:
maggisimpson · Yesterday 22:28

JLou08 · Yesterday 22:11

I worked in a preschool and this is standard. There was never any training on personal care, it's just expected that you will know which most people do, and you obviously did as you managed to change her. The children are new to the school so you and the rest of the staff team will all be getting to know them, the meltdown is likely to have occurred regardless of which member of staff changed them.
Safeguarding training was about what we need to report as a Safeguarding concern, signs of abuse etc, there was nothing in the training about delivering personal care.
It is your job as the TA to meet the needs of the children. Who did you think would be supervising the children and seeing to their personal care? It's well known that there are SEN children in all mainstream schools and reception children who will need personal care.
It does sound like it was a tough day, but I'm sure all EYFS teachers and TAs are finding it tough right now, it will get easier as the year goes on.

An apprentice on their first day should not be straight in doing the job of a full qualified member of staff.
They are there to learn.
Surely you had apprentices sometimes at your preschool? You didn't just send them alone with children on their first day, carrying out personal care?

dancehysterical22 · Yesterday 22:28

Jk987 · Yesterday 21:36

The children should be wearing pull ups.

Not necessarily (SEN teacher)

MyCatsAreFuckwitts · Yesterday 22:31

Hi OP, this is totally unacceptable.
No adult should be providing intimate care without another adult present.
This is rule number 1 in safeguarding, it is to protect YOURSELF from any allegations made against you.
At your level you should not be in charge of a special needs child(ren) on your own, anyplace.
Have you had an enhanced DBS?
Have you had ANY training AT ALL.

This is taking this piss in my opinion.
I'm sorry, this is really unfair on you and putting you in a dangerous position

Good luck and proceed with caution.

limetrees32 · Yesterday 22:31

Changeisstillpossible · Yesterday 21:51

How is this an apprenticeship (rather than just a low paid job), if there isn't any training? Surely safeguarding training and good practice should be a priority?

This ^

BringBackCatsEyes · Yesterday 22:31

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:53

The apprenticeship part starts soon but it will be early years educator course by an external provider, nothing to do with this specific school's policies and training

What does this mean?
Is this placement part of your apprenticeship?
I'm pretty sure no one should be providing intimate care w/o training, information and a sound knowledge of the school's policies.
These children must either have EHCP's or other plan in place and I'm pretty sure it will state that toileting will be carried out by someone with the appropriate training.

HotGrapefruit · Yesterday 22:32

God OP I’m raging on your behalf. This is terrible for you. Hope things improve.

Thisisthecorrectresponse · Yesterday 22:33

It's interesting how many people are saying its wrong etc when really this is the reality of school life - in SEND schools and mainstream: under funded, under staffed, no time or money for training etc etc. Yet the same people would be outraged to hear about a child being left in their own faeces, that a child was denied school because they weren't toilet trained blah blah. SEND schools are full to bursting. Rightly or wrongly staff are expected to hit the ground running. This is a national issue and it is getting worse.
OP - in the morning, chat to your class teacher. Do you have a mentor as an apprentice? Perhaps ask them to develop and schedue some shadowing or training opportunities. There will be stuff online that you can access in your own time too. SEND teachers and TAs are amazing people. Its not for everyone and there's no shame in realising its not for you ultimately: I hope you get the support you need to love it! Good luck!

maggisimpson · Yesterday 22:33

Hankunamatata · Yesterday 22:12

Iv never heard of TA apprenticeship, sounds tough

Tbh TA are just expected to muck in, do personal care esp reception class. Sadly LEAs dont provide enough special school places and sen kids are thrown into mainstream with minimal support. However i would expect to have completed safeguarding training and working with vulnerable children.

Iv never know two adults in school setting take a child to be cleaned and chnaged as frankly there isnt the staff. I dont think its a safeguarding issue to be asked to clean and change a child.

Have a chat with line manager about what is expected of you.

It is a safeguarding issue for a new unqualified member of staff with no training or supervision, and no knowledge of the school's intimate care policy or the child's care plan, to be carrying out personal care for a child with SEN with no information about that child's needs. It's an unsafe situation for adult and child.

And quite frankly other than that she has a pulse and a DBS check, the school doesn't know anything about the OP. Apprentices should be supervised until you are sure they are competent.

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 22:35

JLou08 · Yesterday 22:11

I worked in a preschool and this is standard. There was never any training on personal care, it's just expected that you will know which most people do, and you obviously did as you managed to change her. The children are new to the school so you and the rest of the staff team will all be getting to know them, the meltdown is likely to have occurred regardless of which member of staff changed them.
Safeguarding training was about what we need to report as a Safeguarding concern, signs of abuse etc, there was nothing in the training about delivering personal care.
It is your job as the TA to meet the needs of the children. Who did you think would be supervising the children and seeing to their personal care? It's well known that there are SEN children in all mainstream schools and reception children who will need personal care.
It does sound like it was a tough day, but I'm sure all EYFS teachers and TAs are finding it tough right now, it will get easier as the year goes on.

I always knew I'd have to do personal care and that SEN students will have meltdowns, of course that's part of the job. My issue was more that I wasn't given any info at all regarding the students needs, any PPE, and that I was left in a position where I was alone while a child was trying to injure themselves half dressed, and I couldn't go to get help without leaving a vulnerable child unattended, and that the teacher put me in that position by handing me a child in soiled clothing known to have severe meltdowns and pretty much told me to deal with it on my first day, and I wasn't sure if that is normal which is why I posted

OP posts:
Widoeeyes · Yesterday 22:36

They are completely taking the piss here: especially paying under minimum wage and then providing no training.

Absolutely: escalate

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 22:38

MyCatsAreFuckwitts · Yesterday 22:31

Hi OP, this is totally unacceptable.
No adult should be providing intimate care without another adult present.
This is rule number 1 in safeguarding, it is to protect YOURSELF from any allegations made against you.
At your level you should not be in charge of a special needs child(ren) on your own, anyplace.
Have you had an enhanced DBS?
Have you had ANY training AT ALL.

This is taking this piss in my opinion.
I'm sorry, this is really unfair on you and putting you in a dangerous position

Good luck and proceed with caution.

I have an enhanced DBS. Safeguarding training was a school wide event about spotting abuse, and there was some general department training on early years curriculum. I've had no training regarding intimate care or anything personally yet

OP posts:
DriveVerySlowlyPastNumber23IWantThemToSeeMyHat · Yesterday 22:39

Email the SENCO and the class teacher and ask if there is any training you can go on. Explain your concerns in email.

That way, there's a paper trail to say you've voiced your concerns too.

LarryForPrimeMinister · Yesterday 22:42

Take it further. This is HIGHLY inappropriate. Unless it states on an ECHP that you can do intermitte care you should not be wiping their bums etc. And two staff members should be present.

maggisimpson · Yesterday 22:46

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 22:38

I have an enhanced DBS. Safeguarding training was a school wide event about spotting abuse, and there was some general department training on early years curriculum. I've had no training regarding intimate care or anything personally yet

As a minimum I would say you will not do any intimate care until you have seen the schools intimate care policy and have been shown where all the supplies are.
You need to see the individual child's care plan before changing them.
And I would not be alone with any child or group of children unless you have a means of contacting another member of staff for example a walkie talkie.

Also please make sure you never lift, hold or restrain a child in any way.

HollyhocksandPeons · Yesterday 22:50

This is so unfair on you! If you are going to be working with mentally ill people, you should receive the best of training AND support. This is not on. Please look after yourself. Maybe leave this job? This is awful.

spirah · Yesterday 23:05

Think of it this way.
A verbal SEN child says you hit them when you put a hand out to protect them/ yourself - your career could be damaged or even over.

I have never heard of schools changing children alone, I only know of 2 staff or parents being called in.

School sounds like it’s struggling with this class tbh and it sounds like you’re the dogs body.

There should be clear guidance on your role, the children you are supposed to be supporting and you should have seen the care plan/ EHCP/ Risk Assessment of every child your asked to support.

Sweetbeansandmochi · Yesterday 23:05

Apart from hoisting and the logistics of getting a wheelchair user to and from a changing bed, there is no official training for toileting.

But - at a minimum you should be in pairs. Toileting is a two person job. You should be wearing gloves. There should be a toileting kit available including wipes and nappy bags.

If you had been on my team - you would have shadowed an experienced TA who would take the lead.

I do think what was asked of you today was dangerous and a safeguarding risk.

You need to see the risk assessment for this child in your class - because bathrooming should have been planned, well before today.

Sweetbeansandmochi · Yesterday 23:07

Also just to add - an EHCP would not name who does intimate care. If you are a sen TA it will be part of your job description.

steppemum · Yesterday 23:07

As a safeguarding lead I am appalled that you are doing this with no guidelines or training.

That is the thing I would focus on.
What are the guidelines around toileting and intimate care? Is it OK for you to be alone with this child, and is it in a bathroom where other kids can walk in. What are the protocols, what are the expectations.
What PPE is provided

I would push back firmly but politely and say you are an apprentice. Not a full TA. You are paid less for a reason, you are not a full TA.
You will NOT be doing intimate care until trained to do so.
You will NOT be doing sole supervision with no other teachers/TAs present, because you are a trainee.

Is your apprenticeship mentor at the school, or at college? I would contact them asap

Sideorderofchips · Yesterday 23:12

Holy shit thats bad.

For safeguarding you should have another member of staff with you. The ratios are all off

You need to look elsewhere

MyCatsAreFuckwitts · Yesterday 23:13

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 22:38

I have an enhanced DBS. Safeguarding training was a school wide event about spotting abuse, and there was some general department training on early years curriculum. I've had no training regarding intimate care or anything personally yet

Each year safeguarding training consists of rehashing what staff have already covered with an extra bit that the government has enhanced/added.

This year it was allergies/epi-pens and asthma.
Last year was child on child abuse
Year before was female genital mutilation
Before that radicalisation
This should all be covered, as well as the obvious about looking for signs of abuse

Great you have a DBS

Lots of your learning will only come through learning on the job and experience.

You need to ask your leaders for anything you feel unsure of (in writing) to cover your own back.

To be brutally honest many fully qualified TA's feel exactly as you do now.
It is not for the faint hearted but can be very rewarding to some.

Good luck x

TheBookShelf · Yesterday 23:13

OP, I work in education and this is a basic safeguarding issue. You should not be in the position of providing intimate care to a child without a second adult present. Some people on the thread have mentioned experiences contrary to this from previous jobs, but safeguarding requirements in schools are much tighter than was once the case and what matters is the current requirements, not people saying 'well it was different when I used to work in schools'. . Staff shortage is a reality but your own personal safety at work is also important and changing a child without training and without another adult present is nowadays contrary to basic safeguarding and puts you at risk. Do raise this urgently with your line manager.

For your interest, the NEU (the largest education union in the country) has a summary at this link of what training, support, resources and conditions schools are expected to provide when children need intimate care from school staff. Appropriate training, a second adult, sight of the school's intimate care policy, knowledge of children's individual care plans, and provision of appropriate PPE are all on the list. https://neu.org.uk/advice/classroom/personal-care-pupils

Kirbert2 · Yesterday 23:16

The children should have an intimate care plan agreed with the parents and I'd be very concerned if that isn't the case as it shows they aren't following things correctly.

My son goes to mainstream school and needs intimate care. He has an intimate care plan with 2 named TA's who do all of his intimate care which was all agreed at a meeting between me and school.

Palomiino · Yesterday 23:16

There are a lot of severely disabled children in mainstream schools that really are unsuitable placements for them. And that’s because LAs do all they can
not to give EHCPs and suitable placements.

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