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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I was put in an unacceptable situation regarding SEN students toileting needs?

189 replies

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 20:43

I am genuinely not sure and would appreciate second opinions on this. Today was my first full day as an early years TA apprentice in a mainstream reception class and I'm totally overwhelmed. I've never worked in a school or with SEN students other than some volunteering.

A non verbal 4 year girl with autism soiled her clothes and I was asked to take her to the toilet, change her, and walk her back to class. It was difficult but I managed. Later, she did it again but pooped. I was told again to take her to the bathroom and change her clothes. I was not given any training or safeguarding information regarding personal care prior to this. I cleaned her up as much as possible and then tried to get her in fresh clothes, at which point she became very distressed and refused to get changed. I couldn't let her walk around naked obviously but struggled to get her dressed, she wouldn't wear her trousers and then refused to come to class and escalated into a full meltdown - hitting her head, throwing herself against the floor, kicking and lashing out at me. I couldn't leave her alone but they're was no one else here so I called out to another teacher who offered to help take her to lunch but told me I would have to deal with another SEN boy who has also pooped himself and change him too. Later the same day I was told to supervise 4 SEN children outdoors alone. The teacher also informed me that a new SEN could would arrive tomorrow and I would be in charge of looking after him outdoors while the class learns inside and that I would be doing the first girls toileting needs and training her from now on.

Aibu to feel like I should have been given some support or training on personal care, particularly regarding SEN students? Or been given more information regarding these students, and that it was a lot for one day? I'm not a SEN TA and while I love all the kids and it's part of the job, I worry too much responsibility will be passed into me and I would like to be able to fulfill it safely. I'm just super frazzled and while I did the best I could at the time I'm just feeling bad about myself like I messed up.

OP posts:
geumsun · Yesterday 21:31

Unemployment sounds better, tbh.

A nurse would have PPE when assisting someone who has soiled themselves. Did you have access to any? Just something else to think about.

Bananacrepewithnuts · Yesterday 21:32

How was the role described in the advert and st interview ?
If it differs greatly you need to speak to your line manager or the SENCo if you feel your line manager brushes you off.
You must also ask for more training and speak to your DSL around safeguarding measures when toileting.

Dreamerinme · Yesterday 21:34

My friend works as a TA in a SEN school and she had to do a session on personal care before she could do toileting/nappy changes etc. Also always two staff present.

I would speak to your union - join one if you haven’t already done so immediately - this does not sound right and contravenes the most basic safeguarding procedures. You are putting yourself at risk of potential allegations by ignoring this.

fashionqueen0123 · Yesterday 21:35

To be honest this sounds normal for a TA job except then I saw you were an apprentice.
It’s a myth you need two people for changing a child though. But I’d expect you not to be in charge of 5 SEN kids on your first day! Is there another TA you are shadowing or anything?! Do any of these kids have 1–2-1 funding?

Jk987 · Yesterday 21:36

The children should be wearing pull ups.

Dellso · Yesterday 21:36

I do not think this sounds acceptable all - from a safeguarding perspective or your experience as an employee. Sounds they are enjoying throwing you in the deep end and atmosphere sounds awful. The world of work does not need to be like this, sorry you’re having this experience!

I did a placement at uni in a SEN school. Zero training at all and it’s reminded me of that.
They were so awful with me. Put me on the spot with toileting side of things. Threw me straight into changing 4/5 year olds who had soiled themselves with not a single bit of guidance. Also made me ask where the wipes were and go get it half way through changing, rolling their eyes at me.
I hated every second of being there and it made me miserable. I find the way they behaved even more concerning now I’m older and realise quite how bad it all was.
In your position I would raise it with the safeguarding lead and share all your concerns, make them address it properly and then leave unless it completely turns around. But definitely don’t leave without pointing out how bad this all is!

Arthurnewyorkcity · Yesterday 21:37

Are the children in pull ups? Or being sent in pants when clearly not yet ready? It sounds incredibly tough.

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:38

No other TA with me, just me and the teacher. There's another teacher and TA next door who assist at lunch time but in the class itself it's just me and the teacher. A lot of the SEN students parents don't speak English so it's difficult to communicate or make a plan with them

OP posts:
Raindropskeepfallingon · Yesterday 21:39

This is a safeguarding issue which you need to escalate, immediately. You should be given appropriate training, have read the safeguarding policy and whatever the intimate care or toileting policy is and there should be appropriate PPE and materials available (like wipes). And if you’re going to be regularly toileting particular children you should have sight of whatever their individual intimate care or toileting plan is as well. Are they seriously expecting you to toilet train a child as well, or have I misread?

I would absolutely expect cleaning up soiled children to be a significant part of being a TA in early years, especially in September, but you should have been properly prepared and trained not just handed a child!

It probably is “normal” in some schools, just out of sheer necessity, but it’s not right or ok and for sake of both the children and covering your own back I’d definitely escalate and if necessary in writing.

24Dogcuddler · Yesterday 21:40

School should have an intimate care policy. This should cover ratios, protective clothing to be worn etc.
Do any of the children have EHCPs?
Really unfair to expect you to do this without any training, supervision or knowledge of children’s individual needs.

BruFord · Yesterday 21:41

Are the children with toileting needs wearing pull-ups? Surely that would be sensible if they regularly have accidents. I'm assuming not, given that you had to completely change her clothes.

RemindMeIn15Minutes · Yesterday 21:43

Oxo01 · Yesterday 20:51

Plus it be you that gets the brunt of it if anything bad happens as you have not raised concerns about training / support which should be in email to cover your self.

This. You’ll soon find yourself in trouble when something goes wrong. I’d also leave (but then I couldn’t clean up shitty kids that weren’t my own).

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:44

I wasn't even given gloves at first. I had to ask for them and then they found some for me but that was it in terms of PPE. I asked for wipes too but was told we didn't have any and to just use tissue. EHCPs weren't mentioned at any point. And no, the children aren't in pull ups. The teacher said we need to sort out a toileting routine for her and told me that I should feel free to take her at a regular time so she gets used to it

OP posts:
twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:45

I wasn't given any specific details about the children's needs either, just vaguely told that they're autistic and that one has more needs than the other

OP posts:
Changingnameagain · Yesterday 21:46

Some very good advice on here.
Please join a union tonight-.the NEU offer trainee joiners membership for £1 or something and you can join online. Do it tonight.
Then speak to line manager re training, PPE, intimate care plan policy and individual care plan docs for EHCP students.

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:47

Dellso · Yesterday 21:36

I do not think this sounds acceptable all - from a safeguarding perspective or your experience as an employee. Sounds they are enjoying throwing you in the deep end and atmosphere sounds awful. The world of work does not need to be like this, sorry you’re having this experience!

I did a placement at uni in a SEN school. Zero training at all and it’s reminded me of that.
They were so awful with me. Put me on the spot with toileting side of things. Threw me straight into changing 4/5 year olds who had soiled themselves with not a single bit of guidance. Also made me ask where the wipes were and go get it half way through changing, rolling their eyes at me.
I hated every second of being there and it made me miserable. I find the way they behaved even more concerning now I’m older and realise quite how bad it all was.
In your position I would raise it with the safeguarding lead and share all your concerns, make them address it properly and then leave unless it completely turns around. But definitely don’t leave without pointing out how bad this all is!

Sounds very familiar to me! Except I genuinely do think the teachers here are well intentioned but also just overwhelmed and think because it's normal for them it should also be normal for me and I'll just get used to it quickly

OP posts:
stichguru · Yesterday 21:48

TA here this is fully out of order - like totally, utterly unacceptable. Go to your line manager and tell them this is not right and ask them what training you will be having, what PPE they will be providing, and how they will be ensuring your safety when alone with a small, half-naked, child. Make it very clear that you are doing NO more of this until these things have been done. Also join a union NOW before the shit hits the fan...!

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:49

When I volunteered at a SEN school they were very on it making sure I had read any plans or documents for the students in my class and was aware of all policies so I was surprised here but didn't know if it's just because this is a mainstream school so it's less diligent

OP posts:
EmeraldShamrock000 · Yesterday 21:51

The teacher should have called the parent.
I know when DS was young there was always two staff members and they’d try direct the child to help themselves as much as possible.

Changeisstillpossible · Yesterday 21:51

How is this an apprenticeship (rather than just a low paid job), if there isn't any training? Surely safeguarding training and good practice should be a priority?

OhJacintaWhatNow · Yesterday 21:51
  1. Put everything to do with this in writing.
  1. You need to protect yourself
  1. You must protect the children. This system is flawed and the most vulnerable children are not adequately protected
twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:52

Will definitely be joining a union asap! I have written an email scheduled to send tomorrow morning to my line manager asking to meet to discuss intimate care/ safeguarding policies and training. Will also bring it up with the safeguarding lead as I need to see her about something else anyway.

OP posts:
2dogsandabudgie · Yesterday 21:53

I would be calling the child's parents in to come and clean them up. Is this what mainstream reception is like in the UK now, sounds horrendous.

twelfthdoctor · Yesterday 21:53

Changeisstillpossible · Yesterday 21:51

How is this an apprenticeship (rather than just a low paid job), if there isn't any training? Surely safeguarding training and good practice should be a priority?

The apprenticeship part starts soon but it will be early years educator course by an external provider, nothing to do with this specific school's policies and training

OP posts:
Pearlstillsinging · Yesterday 21:54

If you haven't yet joined a union you need to do so online tonight
Tomorrow you should contact your mentor and ask for their take on what you should be doing. Have you got a job description? Does it mention personal care?

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