AIBU to question people claiming they would happily pay more tax?

[Towerinthegarden]

Yet another thread about should there be tax rises or spending cuts, and invariably you get a host of people coming out saying they are happy to pay more. Well you can https://www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-payments-donations-to-government

I’m pretty sure what they actually mean is I am happy to pay a tiny amount more on the understanding others will pay a lot more and then I’ll see the benefit. If that assumption is wrong why aren’t all these people saying they’re happy to pay more doing it?

I am a pensioner, my combined pension income is around 22k. I agree I think I should pay NI on it

I think most people would not be faffed to specifically go on the relevant website and pay. However like (many?) I would be prepared to pay an additional amount of tax to improve public services etc. You can't have excellent public services in a low tax situation - see USA - you can have excellent public services with higher taxes. If we had excellent public services people wouldn't feel the need to pay for private healthcare, education, social care etc so more of the income they had left would be disposable income.

Because I literally said in my post that I’d be willing to pay it on the basis everyone else does, and that basis isn’t currently true …

It's a common feature of current conversations about politics to attack the people who say things (e.g. 'they do not mean what they say, they mean this other thing'), and set up a straw man argument ('they could do this other different thing anyway'), rather than discuss the substance of anything.

There are, and always have been, and presumably always will be, people who would want the UK to move to a different taxation model in which they personally pay more. Look at Scotland for example - the SNP does not only levy the additional tax on opposition voters.

There are also people who want a more steeply progressive tax model. Then some want a more regressive tax model, some want wide tax cuts.

None of these people are saying something they don't mean, they are all saying what they mean.

I make the voluntary donations

I’m in the 42% bracket and I’m not exactly thrilled with it of course, and neither would I be delighted at the prospect of paying more. But on the other hand I understand I need to pay it if I want functioning public services. I’m not going to go and do a voluntary payment because what would be the point if nobody else did? It works on the basis of everyone who can contributing.

Ultimately people don’t want to pay more - they want to pay more with conditions - be it a better NHS or better schools

as it stands more money isn’t going to improve public services because they aren’t functioning properly for the society we have now - tinkering around the edges isn’t going to fix anything. The triple lock is going to bankrupt this country and politicians are to short termist to be willing to touch it.

instead they tinker with putting in populist taxes like VAT on schools and the mansion tax which raise very little

It isn’t just about supporting other people, it’s about a range of things that make it a better place for our children to live in. Unsupported and unpoliced others can become a risk to us and our children. If there’s no social care system my child will likely end up having to care for me. I don’t want that for her.

They aren’t the people I am referring to though, in fact I specifically say I not referring to people who say they think we should all pay more tax or they think the super wealthy should pay more.
When people talk about would you like services cut I don’t think I have ever seen someone propose a new tax structure as you suggest

If they asked for donations towards specific projects, I think they'd have far more success in attracting donors. I'd happily sign up to £100 a month for 5 years to build prisons & secure migrant holding centres.

I think we have 35 million workers and if we each paid an extra £1 a day we could raise 12 billion. If we threw in the richest 25% of pensioners we could get another couple of billion.

This isnt a serious suggestion btw, i know someone on minimum wage would find £1 a day very hard to find. So I dont need examples if why 35 million people cant afford £365!

but what i mean by 'pay more tax' is finding a largest group possible and them all paying a very tiny bit more ' like 10p a day is still over a billion, rather than finding a small group and making them pay a lot more. Even though I know that some people can afford more than others, I think this is already catered for with the tax free threshold and two different tax rates. i dont understand enough about corporation and business taxes but do think taxing someone to employ someone is problematic when there arent enough jobs and AI is coming.

Me individually putting £365 or 100 to the treasury isnt going to make any difference whatsoever. It only works if millions and millions of people do it so I wouldnt do it.

No they don't which Scandinavian country are you thinking of?

I certainly wouldn’t be happy to pay more tax, I’m paying enough.

If I could find a way to pay less, I absolutely would.

I get annoyed when people do what you did here op. The annoyance is the word "tiny" because it tells me you have made your mind up already.

Now I grew up in Denmark. From Google
Average burden: The average worker pays a substantial portion of their income in total taxes, often averaging around 45% when combining state and municipal dues.

I am willing to pay that in taxes if I was to get something closer to what they receive in Denmark. For example similar maternity and paternity leave, better education, you get paid to go to university. A better welfare system, better roads.

This I would be willing pay more toward. I am not happy to make a voluntary payment to the current system in the UK. And that is what your link is suggesting.

While I would be ok to pay more in taxes I would want a serious overhaul of the current system before this was to happen.

And note I say I am willing noone is "happy" to pay taxes. I am certainly not happy to voluntary pay more into the system we have now as I know it will not go to areas that will make a difference more likely to another Boris type party.

With an overhaul and some heavy reform into the welfare system yes I would be willing to pay more in taxes. As it stands right now. No I am not willing.

A lot of people seem to want Scandinavian levels of public services but pay Dubai
levels of tax. This is a problem clearly.

Yes I’d pay more, but everyone who can needs to pay more. Not a voluntary system.

There is so much money wasted and thrown at stupid things. I don’t want to pay more tax so it can be spent on nonsense. The NHS needs a total overhaul and so does education. Welfare is out of control, immigration is an issue. No. Until these things are sorted I will be loathed to pay more tax.

When people say they would be happy to pay more, they don’t normally mean they’d be happy to voluntarily pay extra, as an individual.

They obviously mean they think the tax rate should be higher for everyone, because the benefits of everyone paying outweigh any downsides to them personally, as an individual.

I agree but culturally there is different mindset that IMO is the difference between such a tax system working and not - evidenced by the OP's proposition!

I think that’s true. But I also think that there is a different attitude to the involvement of the state in citizens lives

That is my opinion - although I'm not sure that supporting them with munitions counts as "Foreign Aid"?
Have you never heard the expression "Don't set fire to yourself to keep others warm ?
If you, yourself, want to support all these 'doctors and engineers' coming from all around the globe how about you take a couple into your home?

Totally agree. Surely if you that exercised about education just give the pta at your kids schools £10k. Then you would never have to got to a shit school fair ever again

I've not read the full thread so hopefully this has already been addressed.

Ukrainians suffered and died for us in massive numbers in ww2 and are now benefiting the whole of Europe by taking on Russia. Of course we should support them, and frankly it's costing us less than the alternative.

You'll notice absolutely none of that was about their skin colour.

Whenever I hear that grandly proclaimed by people I’m like…bullshit no you wouldn’t. What they really mean is, other people should pay more tax but you couldn’t possibly mean me?!! I need my money 😂

Or more precisely, I'll pay a little bit more for fantastic public services as long as other (richer than me) people pay a lot more for them too.

Obviously what's lost on them is:

1. Most of your taxes will be spent on maintaining the rather crap services we have already and on the welfare state. There will be very little money for improvements even if you pay more tax as the cost of maintaining a status quo rises every year.

1. The most obvious place to use additional tax would be to pay down the debt we accrued running the poor services and welfare state over the law few decades. We have been living beyond our means for years and like everyone else, at some point it all needs to be paid back.

1. Middle earners are actually where the biggest tax increases should be targeted if we want to be like the beloved Scandinavian countries. This means that actually those many of those who foresee their increases being matched by the rich are misguided. They need to take on the bulk of raising more money. Not many middle earners are happy with this when they can pretend that billionaires will fix everything and they can contribute peanuts.

DH is a very high earner. 45p bracket. We don't like paying this much tax. A move to the ME is going to happen soon.