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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel middle-class luxuries have become increasingly out of reach?

476 replies

cocobow · Yesterday 16:07

I had to go to the local shopping centre the other day to pick up a click and collect for my husband, new work shirts so nothing fancy! I thought why not make an afternoon of it as I rarely go shopping and I could maybe get a coffee and cake and even treat myself to a little something as my birthday is coming up.

I loved some of the clothes in places like monsoon and seasalt but it was all way too expensive dresses were £80 to £100 or more same with skirts which seemed to start at £65 and I know that isn't even considered expensive today but for me it is! I went for a look in the sephora as I love skincare but again it was all really expensive. The queue for the till was full of school girls buying things I wouldn't be able to buy for myself!

To be fair they were probably there spending birthday money and probably aren't spending money like that all the time. I suppose it just feels like the goal posts on these admittedly luxury items have been moved since I was in my teens and early 20's when I imagined that by my 40's I'd be able to at least buy some of these things or buy nice clothes now and then. My husband and I both degree and post graduate educated and work in professional jobs but we have to prioritise bills, the kids and food over luxuries. To be fair we have no debt at all and we will save for an buy large purchases cash mostly but I admit to feeling a bit personally deprived at times! When my mum was my age she worked in a call centre part time in the evenings and would go round the shops most weekend and buy herself a new top or other item of clothes and exclusively used clarins skincare, I use the ordinary, cerave or boots and superdrug own brand mostly and my clothes come from charity shops. My parents were working class made good but their disposable income seemed to go a lot further than mine does. We don't even have a large mortgage.

DH and I recently looked at taking a short trip to London as a joint birthday present to each other but the cost was so expensive we seem to have quietly shelved the idea.

In the end I had a look in waterstones but even that was expensive, since when are paperbacks routinely £14.99! I never even had a coffee or bit of cake as the selection of cakes looked dry and unappetizing but would still have cost £10 in total.

Am I being unreasonable to think the cost of a middle class lifestyle with a few luxuries has had the goalposts moved by quite some amount?

OP posts:
PancakeCloud · Yesterday 20:31

dicentra365 · Yesterday 20:10

where is everyone living where they haven't closed the libraries? My closest one would cost me about £5 on the bus for a round trip, none within walking distance.

There are lots of libraries in London, so that’s about 9 million people who live nearish one. You can also register and use Libby to borrow audiobooks and e books without visiting a physical library.

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:32

I don't disagree, but I also see most people flagrantly ignoring the idea and gobbling all the holidays and cars and UPFs they can.

dingodan · Yesterday 20:34

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:29

You will be horrified to read that when we bought our lifetime house, in 1996, we stretched every which way to make the money and mortgage stack up. Once it happened all the problems happened at once, but we eventually fixed them all, and now we are 70, we think another family should have the space to enjoy. Unfortunately, because of the price being asked for the apartment we want, and the stamp duty at 5%, we cannot contemplate very much negotiation. The stamp duty on the apartment we like is roughly £30k. That is a lot of tax to move house from a place we like very much and are happy, to prepare for being old.

So an 800k ish house?
How much stamp duty have you paid in your lifetime and how much equity from the sale of your current (I assumed family) home?

RedToothBrush · Yesterday 20:35

SparrowFeet · Yesterday 18:57

I sort of disagree with it on the clothes front. Clothes have got cheaper. Those monsoon dresses were £100 or so back in 2000 and they are about the same now. I've seen posts where vintage shops have got deadstock from places like BHS and Topshop and they've not gone up in price in 30 years.

I think that whilst wages seem to give you less spending power there are so many more additional costs our parents and grandparents didn't pay or weren't that high - internet, tv, gas and electric is far more expensive now. You'd buy just a moisturiser and not a serum as well. Going to a restaurant was for birthdays.

I do agree re the cost of the lifestyle, but I don't think it's because shopping has become more expensive, I just think the expectation of what that life style includes is a lot more.

I agree completely with this.

I wore certain branded trainers in the early 2000s. I managed to get a pair for £30 on sale (I made a point of never spending more than £30 on trainers). I think they were probably originally about £65. It was a good discount back then.

I bought another pair last month. I paid £30 for them. The original price was £90. Obviously this discount looks even better. NOT online.

I was slightly stunned by this and it has really made me think about clothes and how far you can make your money go, if you are careful. You can buy a lot more of comparable products if you understand how they sell has changed.

My example highlights a lot of what has happened in the intervening years - customers are looking for the 'good deal' more. So the % discount matters in terms of that idea. So they price high initially with this in mind. If they can shift units at that price, great. But actually the price they are actually calculating their margins on, is the discount price which they already have worked out in their sales calculations. Working out unit price and the number they expect to sell at each price point has become much more sophisticated and detailed as they have much more data to work this out from and do go to these lengths which was not the case in the 00s.

You also need to think about how the production lines have improved in efficiency and reduced wastage over that time too (more sophisticated programming available). Its not all about the cost of labour in various countries being depressed. Its also the whole process of computerising manufacturing, buying and distribution thats changed.

Whilst the headline price has increased as you would expect with inflation, the price they actually will sell most units at is probably actually lower now than it was 20 years ago. As I say its all about that discount being a massive selling point to customers and being able to increase the percentage of units sold. Plus being able to accurately work out that you need to send 30 pairs to shops in the NE and not 40 means you streamline and target your sales better.

The 00s really saw the start of the outlet store as a concept - this has only increased and this has been boosted by online selling. This is what we expect as a model now.

Shops like Monsoon were not pitched the middle class for daily wear - they have always been the top end of the market and the mass middle class went there for something special. They were also the wedding dress (bride and guests) and bridesmaid shop. The key marker of this is you couldn't really buy something for the office there.

I’ve just come back from a week in France. One thing that really struck me was the cars I saw. Mostly older smaller cars. Hardly any Korean branded cars, a very few German cars and some Minis around. But I didn’t see lots of brand new “flashy” cars. It was really noticeable. I think in the UK we prioritise our spending in strange ways.

God this 100 times. So many Dacias and 'boring' cars everywhere.

The UK is, and always has been, particularly brand obsessed in a way that our neighbours just aren't. This has got worse with cars, especially as the cost of cars has increased. This matters in terms of how much disposable income you might have.

Where I think costs have gone up most, in recent years is without a doubt in hospitality. But thats where minimum wage increase, taxation increases, energy increases and brexit have hit hardest. Plus many businesses took out loans for covid which they had to pay off by jacking up prices.

But clothes. No I don't think they have really increased like for like much at all.

One company I would pick out is I have to say in M&S stand out to me recently in terms of quality and how prices have stayed particularly reasonable considering and if anything are cheaper comparatively. This has surprised me.

NimbleTaupeTiger · Yesterday 20:35

the80sweregreat · Yesterday 20:30

Having things in the 90s seemed more doable and affordable though. DIY is extortion now , things like paint and diy materials seemed better value.
Or maybe I am rose tinted glasses and we were not rich back then either ( not rich now either !)

I think we were younger and we went for cheaper stuff, now we're older we want better quality so it costs more. 🤣🤣

No, we were strapped for cash then and strapped for cash now too 🤣

Noodledog · Yesterday 20:35

Just like to point out to people bemoaning that things like haircuts are so much more expensive - well, yes they are, but have you actually thought about why? It's because until 1999 there was no minimum wage, and even when it was brought in it was at a much lower level. Hairdressers were paid an absolute pittance. Fantastic for the customer getting a bargain haircut, shit for the hairdresser on £1.50 an hour. This is the same in all sectors where workers used to be paid virtually nothing.

But to me, the obvious major factor is housing costs. While they are so high, trying to address anything else about affordability will only ever be tinkering around the edges.

Lastdaysofsummer26 · Yesterday 20:38

I'm always shocked at how much money people spend on coffee

Stressedandgrey · Yesterday 20:38

SmallDFartyCarNRG · Yesterday 16:50

Again though, to get to these we have to walk through town - with kids who want £7 icecreams or £5 pastries after school, that is not an option people will want to do. Fine by yourself but who has time when you have kids?
Also libraries are fairly notorious for having weird men trying to use their computers for porn, we have a lot of youths and homeless who take over the parks, so saying kids should use these spaces isn't practical or often safe.

Edited

I've never heard that about libraries, but the libraries in my town have all closed or are very part time now.
Such a shame...we got our books from the library and my now adult/older teen kids used to enjoy a weekly trip to the library.

dingodan · Yesterday 20:39

Interesting lots of people talking about new cars, the majority are purchased by people who are 50 plus.

CalmTheFuckDownMargaret · Yesterday 20:39

Gibgertea · Yesterday 20:29

That amount of money on a candle is an extravagance I could never justify and few people would have justified 40 years ago.

They didn’t cost that then (ten years ago). The prices have rocketed in a way that my income hasn’t, just like the clothes OP is mentioning.

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:40

Re libraries.... I helped run a village library in the 1960s in a Cornish village as a small child. I still live in a (different) Cornish village, and now we have a more limited service, fewer books and curtailed hours. But we also have book exchange points everywhere if all you want is a novel. It works, just about, until you want a specific out of print title.

GaIadriel · Yesterday 20:40

Noodledog · Yesterday 20:35

Just like to point out to people bemoaning that things like haircuts are so much more expensive - well, yes they are, but have you actually thought about why? It's because until 1999 there was no minimum wage, and even when it was brought in it was at a much lower level. Hairdressers were paid an absolute pittance. Fantastic for the customer getting a bargain haircut, shit for the hairdresser on £1.50 an hour. This is the same in all sectors where workers used to be paid virtually nothing.

But to me, the obvious major factor is housing costs. While they are so high, trying to address anything else about affordability will only ever be tinkering around the edges.

It's also the styles in some cases. My partner pays £28 every fortnight for a fade and beard trim. That'd have been an unthinkable amount for most men in the 90s even accounting for inflation.

TidyOchreDeer · Yesterday 20:41

Totally agree. I used to love a mooch about the shops but I buy everything on Vinted and from charity shops now!

likeafishneedsabike · Yesterday 20:42

wherethewaterisdarker · Yesterday 17:03

yes and it’s only going to get worse. This is not a blip but a symptom of a slowly collapsing system. The best (but hard! We are all products of our environment) option is to try and turn your back on capitalism/consumerism as much as possible. It is serving fewer and fewer people - but there are ways to live that don’t centre “stuff”. Try and adapt now while it still feels like a choice.

I find this post compelling. Please post more - what do you mean by the system collapsing?

the80sweregreat · Yesterday 20:45

I suppose that sourcing the material for clothes and all the things people want to buy is going up in price snd it’ll all be pushed on to us. The days of cheap imports and bargains may be coming to an end. Factor in climate change too and it’s the perfect storm isn’t it.

ThereWereNoUsernamesLeft · Yesterday 20:48

Notellinganyone · Yesterday 19:04

I’m 59 and this is the first time in my life I’ve felt flush. Still paying youngest’s rent at uni but have taken my lump sum and pension while continuing to work. Mortgage is paid off and I’m spending money on the house, on clothes and on books (lots of books). But fully aware that this is just good luck - teachers pension was a v good deal when I started 30 years ago and bought first house in 90s.

Edited

Sounds like you've worked hard, all that time as a teacher can't have been easy. You deserve to enjoy it! 💐

Timykeys · Yesterday 20:48

I am poorer but that is because we genuinely do have a lower income, higher mortgage and two kids.

Women now though do spend more on crap. The skincare regimes are a ridiculous, expensive rip off. No one used to do that. I was the first person I know to even use moisturizer in my early 20s. And no one used anything more than just a moisturizer. And everyone other woman seems to pay to get their mails doe now.

Timykeys · Yesterday 20:48

I am poorer but that is because we genuinely do have a lower income, higher mortgage and two kids.

Women now though do spend more on crap. The skincare regimes are a ridiculous, expensive rip off. No one used to do that. I was the first person I know to even use moisturizer in my early 20s. And no one used anything more than just a moisturizer. And everyone other woman seems to pay to get their mails doe now.

likeafishneedsabike · Yesterday 20:49

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:40

Re libraries.... I helped run a village library in the 1960s in a Cornish village as a small child. I still live in a (different) Cornish village, and now we have a more limited service, fewer books and curtailed hours. But we also have book exchange points everywhere if all you want is a novel. It works, just about, until you want a specific out of print title.

I have been taught by my voracious reader friend to buy kindle books for 99p only. Cheap even for fast readers.

Gengha · Yesterday 20:49

Sunbringer · Yesterday 16:48

I think when you’ve got kids at home luxuries like this are deprioritised. When the kids leave home you then have the extra money for them. The age people have kids has moved later so people think by 40s they should have this spare post kids money but that’s more 50s now.

Edited

I think this is spot on. My kids are still at home but grown up and I’ve got much more available dosh than when they were young. They are total money pits

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:51

Or, we can go all out to generate money and jobs. Short term, my opinion is that we need more regular jobs and more cash. But not the cash swill around drug dealing, nail bars and vape shops. I am fortunate: I live in the country and I'm old.

the80sweregreat · Yesterday 20:52

I had gel nails once and it was a faff and a waste of forty pounds ( around 2014 )
They looked lovely for a week , then went nasty.
I admire those who can keep them looking good for ages and the time to get them done every month. Our local nail bars are always banged out!

sodoffbeforemycupofcoff · Yesterday 20:53

Gibgertea · Yesterday 16:40

But 40 years ago my middle class mum wouldn’t have been going into town to buy pricey tops, books and expensive skincare with coffee out- just because. We all used the library, she bought M&S clothes when she actually needed them and we bought doughnuts to take home. Skincare was oil of Ulay. People now think they should just be able to fritter money as if it’s an entitlement.

I was saying this today. Everyone says how hard it is to now get a mortgage, but has turkey teeth, hair transplants and the latest car and trainers. Make it make sense!?

GaIadriel · Yesterday 20:57

wherethewaterisdarker · Yesterday 17:03

yes and it’s only going to get worse. This is not a blip but a symptom of a slowly collapsing system. The best (but hard! We are all products of our environment) option is to try and turn your back on capitalism/consumerism as much as possible. It is serving fewer and fewer people - but there are ways to live that don’t centre “stuff”. Try and adapt now while it still feels like a choice.

I don't really understand people that just buy loads of random shit. It's almost like a compulsion. A keen musician spending a few grand on a nice guitar or an avid pc gamer spending £3k on a rig is different because they only do it occasionally and it gives them hours and hours of entertainment.

Papyrophile · Yesterday 20:57

likeafishneedsabike · Yesterday 20:49

I have been taught by my voracious reader friend to buy kindle books for 99p only. Cheap even for fast readers.

I have had Kindles since they were available. I'm on my fourth. But it doesn't mean I want to read all the crap they sell cheap. I'm a fairly voracious reader too, but you have to dodge a lot of crap within the 99p offers.