School children should receive free bus travel before pensioners?

[Itchthescratch]

My child is starting a school where it will cost around £2k for bus travel. This school is local and one of the closest schools to us. The other schools close to us are much worse in terms of opportunities and academic outcomes. I can afford the bus fare easily but I worry that some poorer families will really struggle to send their children to the higher achieving school because of the cost.

I understand that there isn't an endless pot of money but surely it would make sense to give school children free travel ahead of other groups like pensioners? School children are statistically much more likely to suffer from poverty (child poverty is almost double pensioner poverty)and it seems crazy that we aren't supporting social mobility whilst we let all pensioners travel for free on buses.

On public transport. Eligible children get dedicated school transport.

Lots of people have that below pension age and have to fund bus fares themselves. They are statistically more likely to be less able to afford this.

@Itchthescratch it doesn’t sound like your child is living in poverty though. There is quite a lot of financial support for those children. Certainly in school they are a priority (and rightly so). They get funding for free meals, support with uniform, breakfast club, school trips. There are holiday clubs over the summer, free school meal vouchers. Nursery for toddlers all paid for. Taxis to school for children with SEN. You want to take away a perk for pensioners so you don’t have to pay bus fares? Just use your local school. Or move house so you are nearer the better school?

Only 11% of school journey travel on school-only buses

Not in Scotland. It's 100%.

I think we have ended up over funding pensioners but under funding social care for the elderly, who will have the courage to say no more. Maybe it's time to redistribute the funds directed towards the elderly, removing the state subsidies from the wealthy and using them to pay for social care?

I really have no clue how this problem gets solved - every week on here people talk about how much money they give to their adult children to avoid paying IHT or care home fees, whilst expecting the state to fund their social care when/if the time comes. Anyone who has an elderly relative with care needs will know that getting state care is not that easy and the bar to qualify is much higher than you'd ever expect. The quality of state care is very variable - if all your spare cash has gone to your adult kids - you better hope they step up when you need their help for years on end!

And of course we need to provide more support to children rather than less.

Are you struggling financially OP?

This is baffling I've never said my kids live in poverty or that we are the reason school travel should be free. I have said it should ideally be means tested. Funny you use the word 'perk' about OAP passes.

Where is your proof that lots of OAP's haven't paid in enough? Just as many pay in all their lives and never get anything- my stepfather worked from being 15 until 2 months before his death at 65, he drew his pension once, that's the way "National Insurance" works some people get to draw on it and some don't.
Quote chapter and verse in the studies you vaguely refer to , or stop saying this.

And how much do kids cost the taxpayers already? You seem to have forgotten to mention.

How much did you cost the taxpayer as a child?

But school children do get free transport to school if they meet the criteria. It has to be nearest school that meets needs and over a certain distance (distance is different for primary versus secondary).
If you are having to pay for a the bus it suggests the school isnt the nearest.

Yes it is wrong that financial situations limit the options but in this case a bus pass might not fix the inequality because the school would potentially become over subscribed and then would use distance to allocate places so reducing the number of further out children who could attend.

Really we should focus on ensuring all secondary schools can deliver equal opportunities but how you doing that I'm not sure.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/mar/15/babyboomers-welfare-politics-tax

Of course that's what we should do but no-one has been able to achieve this and no political party is even attempting to tackle this at the moment. So at the moment kids are at the mercy of the current system.

If you fund the passes then who will this make the difference to? Kids like mine, ideally wouldn't be eligible for the free passes but ultimately I am always going to pay to get them to the best school and so will other parents with the means. So the only ones missing out on the school due only to financial matters is poor kids. If you think enabling these poor kids to attend a good school means some become oversubscribed then what does this say about the current system? We are literally trapping poor kids in crap schools because they lack the money to travel elsewhere.

@Itchthescratch so just pay for the bus pass? It sounds like you want to take away the free bus pass from pensioners to directly fund families such as your own. For some pensioners it will be a vital lifeline and enable them to get to appointments & do their shopping. For others they might use it to meet their friends for lunch. My Mum rarely uses hers & prefers to drive & I think the majority who can drive & afford a car will do that. The pensioners who are able to afford their own transport therefore won’t be a burden. I imagine quite a few are still paying tax.

It's a real eye-opener, isn't it?

I cost more than my brother. When we were born there was family allowance, that was only.paid for the second child (me) there was nothing for the older child (him). In 1977 this was changed to child benefit and the older child was taken into account. So any first child who turned 18 before 1977 ( oh, that would be pensioners) got sweet FA. Also, second children were only paid for until age 16.

The average income for a single pensioner is under £17,000 pa
OP’s parents and some of the people known to people on MN aren’t typical. I originally said that children should be a priority for free transport.
This thread has illustrated that it would be more expensive because the bus passes would get more use.

Many pensioners using their bus passes are not going on a jolly. They're going into town to do a voluntary job. I volunteer at a museum where there are about 300 volunteers, the vast majority are pensioners. We do a lot of work with schoolchildren and young families. We organise regular activity days during school holidays, which are completely free for the children and are very popular. The museum could literally not run without voluntary help. Removing the concession woukd be a big disincentive to volunteers.

Also most pensioners pay income tax, so they are still contributing

Were you not educated? Did you not receive healthcare?

Using your logic, my kids cost nothing as I don't get CB. Clearly that isn't the case.

Except I have repeatedly said that ideally it should be means tested so we would miss out as a family. Children and teens could use the passes to meet their friends, go to extra curricular activities or work. Free bus travel has loads of benefits for any group that is entitled to it. The question is, who needs it most?

This is simply the usual argument caused by declining population- there is nothing that can be done about that, the boomers have paid in so they are entitled to whatever is availble as contributirary benefits, this means there will be less available later because the population is declining- that does not mean they haven't paid enough in or that they shouldn't be able to access benefits.
This article is also opinion and is not supported by any studies it merely quotes figures from National statistics which were already well known, due to population decline, wage stagnation and rising costs there will be less available later- in other news water is wet.

https://fullfact.org/economy/are-pensioners-better-people-working-age/

Oh behave, you're impossible.

Even better to make free prescriptions means tested so those who have plenty of money continue to pay for them rather than getting a freebie.