Not interested in arguing with you very PC types, just saying......

[cosima]

I went to a school fete today, there were two men there that I felt could have been paedophiles. NOW, of course this thread could go in to a laborious discussion about How did I know? / How could I be so judgemental? How dare I? What a terrible world when people are so narrow minded! etc etc, but actually the only action I am taking is to say to a mums website

Please remember that school fetes are open to the public, parents feel very safe in the environment, Paedophiles go to school fetes on saturday afternoons, and PLEASE KEEP YOUR CHILDREN SAFE AND IN VIEW.

Thsi is getting ridiculous!!

Sixspot, it's one thing for your dh to be somewhere WITH his dc's, but would he go and wander around a school fete or such like on his own without you or the dc's?

My dh wouldn't, and most men I know wouldn't either. So I would wonder what a man on his own was there for.

Some people wouldn't give it a second thought and just think they enjoy fetes, that's up to them and that's fine.
I wouldn't think like that, but that's fine too.

I have to admit I recently saw a local school advetising their fete with a big poster on the school gates, and as a someone who has worked in child protection i was a bit

I know how peadophiles operate and i did query how wise it was to advertise a school fair to the general public.

Because teh event is in a school i would think that parents are more relaxed than they would be at other events.

It is a very sad sign of the times.

Ivegotaheadache

But the point of whole thread is about the threat of men who don't fit in.

And my objections to that are that we should operate age appropriate caution around our children consistently ( and not apply it randomly) and that men should not be treated with suspicion because they happen to be out and about.
My brother was a widower at 28 with a small child - I wonder how he would manage now looking around ELC for birthday presents etc.And I am actually faintly relieved that my dad died before my mum as he loves kids and would have hated that he couldn't chat with a kiddie in the park on his own.

I actually do understand the general point you are making. But I think it is nonsense still.
As you have observed ( and as I know) paedophiles are not most likely to be the odd looking bloke at the school fete. They are likely to be your uncle. Which negates the idea that we can protect our children better by being extra vigilant when out and about. That is not where they are in the most danger.So your point is a little redundant.

BUt I probably would not have reacted at all had you not produced your whole rapist scenario which tbh I still find way over the top.Finding it unsurprising to see a man out on his own is really not the same as wandering down dark alleys.

I think we must agree to disagree. I keep my DC's safe through acting upon what I have lived and experienced. I suspect we all do the same.
I just would much prefer it if people did not tell me that I am endangering my children because i do not make the same choices that they do.
I think I have a pretty good idea of what is at stake here.

Sixspot
I think we just have to make sure that your DC and my DC don't ever go to the beach together. but .

I am taking DS2 to Disneyland next year. DH and i think it may be the last year we can let him enjoy Playhousedisney show etc without security following him/us around. He will be 12 in October.

I never tried to say thsat it was the same, I was trying to make a point about decisions made and who the repercussions lie with.

Also, I wasn't saying that they are more likely to be your uncle and so watching them whilst out is pointless, I meant they look like normal everyday people and you cannot tell who they are, where they live ect. (and I know that abuse is most likely by a family member ect and how to protect them ect)

I agree with you to a certain extent that we keep our kids safe through what we have lived ect, though I haven't experienced being run over by a car and I still try to stop that happening to my dc's.

It wasn't my intention to question your parenting because you don't feel or act the same as I do. Though I do feel that if there are parents who would feel like I do, are labelled paranoid and way ott.

Have to cook dinner now

To point out that the decisions a parent makes re child safety affects ..erm.. children is hugely patronising.

And actually I was saying that an abuser is more likely to be your uncle - so watching when out and about isn't exactly pointless but it is certainly less so than being aware of who is trying to get particularly close with your child, especially in isolation.

Your arguements are circular and confusing me. So now Ivegotaheadache .

My experience tells me that the chances of my DD being whipped out of a playground buy a stranger are very rare. the chances of some relative or family contact trying to abuse her are much higher.
my decisions are liklihood based.

I don't have a problem with parents being cautious about their children. i worry about their fear impinging my sons ability to live in relative comfort and saefty.

My dinner is probably burning.

Instead of looking out for paedophiles at the school fete, just make sure no member of your family is interfering with your kids.

98%+ of child abuse cases involve a member of the family or a family friend.

Stop being so silly and suspicious all the time.

haven't read it all - I don't have that much time , however I would add something. We go to a theme park for little kids a lot and there are frequently the same few guys sitting by the wet area where there are kids running around with little or no clothes on. They have cameras and although I have never seen them take a photo, I am highly suspicious and reported them. unfortunately if they are just sitting there enjoying the sunshine, there is not a lot this park or similar can do.

There are paedos who frequent these places. How do you make parents realise that they should be careful?

Haven't read most of this, but it's very funny.

Cosima, you need too lighten up big time

I love the thread title.

As if having common sense makes you very PC.

Whooaah turnip! I think that if I am at a water park and there are men sitting by themselves (who are frequently there, without children in a park that they have to pay a lot to get into that caters only for children) who are staring at the kids, this is wrong. I think that parents need to be responsible in this case. Do you think it is responsible parenting to let your children run around naked in a water park where there are lots of people and some like the guys above that you don't know?

I don't know for a fact that they are paedos, but can you tell me what a man would be doing sitting in a child's theme park (that he has had to pay 30 quid to get into) next to the water section for most of the day staring at kids? Have I done a survey? No, but I go there often enough (as do my mates) to know these guys, to see them a lot and always think it is odd. I don't know if a child has been abducted, I would sincerely hope not. I am not talking abduction, but even if a photo was taken it would be terrible.

I agree danger is also within the family or friends circle, but I also think that there are perves out there.

Did you see the documentary a while ago about paedos and it showed some photos clearly taken in parks like this?

You have to be careful - it is unfortunate, but true.

Oh yes and we live in a busy town where one day a few years ago DD was climbing into the double buggy, it was busy, in a pedestrianised area, it was summer. A guy walked right up to us with a camera down by his side and he definitely took a photo up her dress very quickly. Disgusting dirty pervert.

She was wearing loosish knickers, she is only really skinny and they hung down a bit. The thought that some perv might have got a photo disgusts me. DH adn friend gave chase and lost him, we reported it to the police - apparently it is not the first.

Now tell me to not be worried.

ummm
paedos and perves ?
Parents letting their children be undressed at a water park?

should I just ...?

So you still go to the water park even though you think there are paedophiles there, oneliein? That's just asking for trouble surely in that case?

How can you be absolutely sure that his child isn't in the water and he's apparently staring because he's looking out for his child?

Actually, I'm so acutely aware of people's paranoia that when my dad came swimming with DS and I and DS was in his swimming lesson, I made sure I was with my dad every time in between laps he was checking on DS's progress in the class in case someone accused him of staring at the children in the swim session. Longest sentence in the world there.

And if you're so concerned about the waterpark paedophiles, why don't you suggest to the owners that they don't let in adults unless they have children with them?

There was a period of time when I often took my grandson to the park alone - to give his mum (my daughter) a much needed break. Mostly I'd have been hovering nervously over him afraid he'd fall off the slide or something, but there would have been times as he got bigger when I'd sit and watch him from a distance.

What's more when I was sitting alone watching him I'd sometimes smoke!!! so that proves it doesn't it.

Certainly if the situation arose these days I'd have to say "look after him yourself. The loonies won't like me taking him there"

The majority of abuse does happen in the home or by people that are known to the child, no one is disputing the statistics. This is why we try as best as we can to protect our children in this environment.

But just because the statistics are much lower for stranger abuse and it's much rarer doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all. It does happen which is why we try as best as we can to protect our children in this environment.

Even if out of 1 million abused children only () 1% are by strangers or out of the home, well that's 1,000 children.
Not a 'small' number really.

There are no valid statistics (i.e. not enough to make the stats valid) to show how rare it is for children to be abducted or abused by a stranger. That's how rare it is.

Have been reading with interest, and must say I totally agree with Turnip and WW - the chances of sexual assault/abduction by 'strangers' outside of the family home is negligible. It's already been said, but the chances are that it's a friend or relative that places children in this type of danger. Unfortunately, cases that hit the media tend to be those very rare occasions involving strangers, creating a false sense of where the risk lies. What's more, abusers tend to target children who they perceive to be vulnerable in some way, (eg. often alone, looking unhappy, clear victim of neglect etc etc) and usually after a lengthy period of observation/grooming. The child that has supportive, vigilant parents, and is secure and happy, is unlikely to be a target.

Must say it depresses me to see these men (and some women, but mostly men) referred to as 'paedos' and 'perves'. What a constructive approach to the issue.

I once saw a padeophile in kew Gardens.. I kid you not. he was lurking in the bushes with a camera pretending to photgraph trees for about an hour. There was a beach with sand and stuff set up for kids last summer. It was full of 0-3 year olds. he's made signs on a4 paper stuck on sticks that said "Friday is naked day at the beach". I told the staff in the resturant nearby and they came and took the signs away. Later I saw the kew garden police driving around like they were looking for someone. Honeslt, in Kew Gardens of all places.. OP may have a point!

"He's made signs on a4 paper stuck on sticks that said "Friday is naked day at the beach"."

BWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Brilliant!

Jette - took the guffaw right out of my mouth

I find this obsession with paedophilia really unhealthy. I do actually think that it's pervert to be obsessed and see paedophiles everywhere.

have we done the "you're more likely to be abused by someone in your immediate family" line?