AIBU to feel at my wits' end with my five-year-old on holiday?

[Bratmum]

That’s it really. I’m on another holiday, booked and arranged so that it’s absolutely perfect for my 5 year old and she’s being a selfish brat. She’s shouting, whinging, won’t share with her sibling, everything is answered back to, things thrown, tantrums, kicking things. We discipline her. She has treats withheld, she’s been told she isn’t going swimming today, she’s been shouted at. We’ve calming explained how this behaviour is unacceptable, she’s been sent to her room. Anything else recommended? Before anyone asks if she’s ND, probably. Me and her father are both diagnosed with ADHD. as sure, we go to great lengths to make sure that she has lots of exercise, a good diet and lots of sleep. We make sure plans aren’t overwhelming and give her lots of notice of transitions. I understand how difficult adhd can make life but I won’t accept bad behaviour going unchecked. Any suggestions much appreciated.

The biggest problem with holidays for our ND child (we didn’t know she was back then) was being out of her normal routine, not having a fixed plan for her. That sent her haywire. We only had one child so we bore the brunt of it, but for sure if she’s had siblings they would have been fighting. She felt all over the place and didn’t know what to do with those feelings. Punishments and deprivation of treats etc would only make the situation worse for us. When I look back on how we dealt with it all, I cringe!

She is not being a brat. None of it is deliberate, it’s big emotions and she doesn’t know where to dump them.

Have you got a fixed routine for her for the day, so perhaps the night before you can sit with her and go through step by step what to expect? (Hard with ADHD, I know!) Then during the day, plenty of reminders that x is happening, and next will be y. We found this really helped, once we twigged what the problem was.

Glass of wine/your favourite soft drink and ignore her as much as possible.

It's an age where they can be really really annoying. Just try and let it wash over you.

I remember one horrific start to a holiday with our eldest. It was horrid. They were of a similar age. I was looking at flights to get home early and was serious about it.

Then, after a couple of days, something flipped. They just suddenly "got it" and we all enjoyed ourselves.

I wouldn't go too hard with the banning of swimming etc. It wrecks yours and their siblings holiday too. Just do everything you want, and make sure they are included. You want to go swimming? Fabulous, go swimming, and take 5 yr old too. You want an icecream? Everyone have one. If they play up? Ignore them, but carry on!

Your 5 yr old (it sounds like) is just overwhelmed, not being naughty. Hopefully they will adjust and settle in.

Doing this visually can also be great. We have no 'labels' but in our house we all benefit from writing out a rough timetable and To Do list for the next day. Used to do it with pictures when younger too. Mine liked the satisfaction of ticking things off the list through the day, too. It had the double benefit of knowing what to expect and 'gamifying' the 'achievements' as we went through the day.

She is being a brat, obviously. Ignore her and do the best you can to enjoy it. Sometimes being ignored and not getting attention makes them calm down. I wouldn't change any plans though, if you're swimming keep doing it, that just gives her MORE attention/power from changing things.

Hopefully this phase will pass, I know the feeling lol. But you are right, don't let it go unchecked or she really will turn into a horrible adult brat no one likes.

No swimming is punishing you all. Far too harsh.

She is out of routine, ignore the poor behaviour you can ignore. Any punishment should be much less severe eg "we arent going to the pool until you calm down/behave/apologise," rather than no pool for the day.

Keep doing what you’re doing, however, a whole day out of the pool if you’re on a pool holiday is too much and will probably make her harder work for you.
Involve her in anything you can e.g did, you are in charge of leading the way to the pool, selecting a card game for after dinner, picking snacks at the supermarket. Is she sleeping at night? Does she have time and space to herself?
keep her busy, give her tasks - can she build 30 sandcastles? Hang the wet swim wear on the washing line? But pick your battles, holidays can be really unsettling.

God dont punish her by stopping swimming. Let her do the physical stuff she enjoys.

She is a baby ! Mine are 12 and 14 and I look at 5 yr olds as tiny. She is probably hating being on holiday.

My daughter is autistic ane has always struggled with holidays

Is she getting enough quiet time . Mine needs hours alone in the hotel room with stories or TV or whatever. Then can cope for a bit doing other stuff

Punishments only work if the child can genuinely change their behaviour through self control. A 5 year old struggling like this probably can't.

It sounds like she is struggling with the change that a holiday inevitably brings and as a result her behaviour is worse than anticipated. Its hard because you have obviously thought about booking something to suit her and so it's frustrating that it isn't going to plan. I think the best thing to do is to lower your expectations and try to minimise transitions throughout the day to lower the opportunities for her to become dysregulated. I would think about whether sharing is totally necessary for example (she could be focussed on this as a way of maintaining control over something), or if actually her behaviour would be better if she had time in the pool rather than removing access as a punishment.

I hope she settles soon and that you can all enjoy your holiday.

I have found so much about parenting a Nd child goes against the whole punishment attitude. I also hate children being called brats. Ultimately there is always something destabilising them.

This does not mean letting them get away with poor behaviour btw but take a calm approach...that poor behaviour means they are struggling and dysregulsted

Generally time out and de escalation work without adding stress or punishment

She is out of routine, dis-regulated and can’t cope. Negativity has set in - you’re not going swimming today, you can’t do this, go to your room, etc.

Talk to her about the day’s plans and what she’d like to do. Help her remain calm, avoid situations where she has to share something with her sister, compliment positive behaviour. Maybe a few hours of divide and conquer - you do something with her and your DH does something with her sibling. Ignore a lot of the whinging. Have consequences for bad behaviour - whinging in pool, sit out for 10 minutes, bad behaviour in playground - one of you brings her out snd the other stays with sibling.

YABU, and your problem here is a MAJOR lack of consistency.

You can’t be flicking back and forth from shouting at her to calmly explaining to taking stuff away. It’s confusing and unfair. How is she going to learn the boundary when it and the consequences keep changing?

You need to pick a way to parent and stick with it, you need to react the same way every time so she knows what to expect.

She doesn’t know how you’re going to react to her behaviour because you’re always changing it up, so she will feel unsafe and unanchored because she never knows what to expect.

If you cannot regulate your own emotions, how can you expect her to?

Consistency is key, and she has none of it.

Visual timetable for the day
Use of now and next
Give her choices where possible - park first or swimming?

If giving consequences you need to have warnings before things are removed and chances to earn them back. Time out to regulate, apologise and get back on track.

My 5yo has been exactly the same the entire summer holidays. I'm pulling my hair out. I've started the process with the GP getting him diagnosed, on the screening every single box was "all the time".

Nothing works to change his behaviour he will literally be doing it while I tell him off for it. He does it in front of other people. If I send him to timeout he either screams the house down, keeps coming out, or kicks the door. Explaining doesn't help, he doesn't listen. I don't think he can physically control himself at all. His body just does it, he can't make the decision not to. He is an absolutely lovely boy but it's like he's possessed.

Im at the point now of just ignoring it. Unless he's hurting his sibling. Just fucking scream and whine, whatever. Just let it all turn into background noise and count down the days.

I was so looking forward to having fun and bonding but theres no point even trying. We can't do anything nice together.

The thing is, school doesn't really make it any better, it just crams it all into less time. He was better at nursery where he had structure but also constantly running around. So yeah I think this is just going to be our life now 👍

Feel your pain OP

Now and next warnings can help eg we will play here for 10 minutes, the next we are going home

Using shorter sentences and breaking instructions right down

Trying to give instructions rather than saying no, eg let’s put this away or over here instead of don’t touch that - same message just in a different way

Look up sensory circuits to try and bring calm and focus back

Discipline when calm as they won’t listen when in a rage

Sticker reward charts for good behaviours

I give a warning then follow through eg the ball is not for throwing, if you throw it I will take it away, then I’m taking it away because you threw it

Look up social stories which can help

Visual cards showing tasks eg for morning and bedtime routines

I would do shifts with Dad and leave her in the accommodation all day if necessary. If she acts bratty when out the next day, do the same again. Not acceptable to spoil everyone else's time.

She's 5, ND and out of routine, you've taken her on a holiday way from everything familiar and proceeded to refuse stuff she likes and shout at her when she doesn't make it nice for the rest of you. She's 5 for goodness sake.

Am sure there are loads of suggestions here, but wonder whether there is a PDA element too?

The starting point is to have no plans - no big trips or sight seeing planned, just the possibility of doing so.

Is it worth sitting down with her and asking her to plan your day with you and structure things with open questions so that there is no ‘demand’ element?

eg “today was very stressful for you, I can see that, would you like to plan what we do tomorrow?’

Dad would really love to take us for pizza in local town - would you like a pizza? No? What would you like instead?

Mummy and daddy would like to go into town for a little while to look at the pretty castle/roman mozaic - shall we do that tomorrow or today?

can we buy you an instant camera so you can take some pictures while we are out and then we can take them to the shop to be printed when we get home? You could be our photographer?

Would you like a quiet day at the hotel/villa tomorrow or shall we take a walk on the beach after breakfast?

Would you like to play in the pool before lunch or afterwards tomorrow?

Oh you don’t want to play in the pool - do you want to bring a colouring book/the ipad and sit with mummy under the parasol while daddy plays in the pool with sibling, instead?

I know your toys are very special, which toys shall we keep just for you today? Is there a toy that you think your sibling might like to play with that you could let her have today?

Ie, you ‘empower’ her to make decisions, to feel part of the process. It’s not gentle parenting in anyway, but a way to remove conflict and to get her to actively engage in what is going on, to ‘buy in’… thereby reducing the stress for you both?

I agree. No swimming on holiday when you all enjoy it is pretty pointlress imho. I agree with doing a rough timetable the day before. I don't agree with pandering to children but keeping her in the apartment all day is simply madness.

She's five. Not a 'selfish brat'. I'd cool down on the discipline and be a little more empathetic. Sounds like she may be struggling out her routine and it can be a difficult age. Try to get her involved in activities.

This is a lovely post and I agree with it all. Help her make some choices and definitely no harsh punishments on holiday but a bit more of a gentle approach. She is just 5, she doesn’t really know how to control her emotions yet.

It sounds like you’re doing a lot of escalation instead of helping her to calm down and emotionally self-regulate. It just sounds like punishment after punishment after punishment, instead of just calming her down to figure out a solution. Holidays are stressful for children too. A lot of parents also drink on holiday and get more emotional and shouty than at home. I’d sit with her til she calms down and then have a chat about it. Maybe she needs something different from you. Sorry but being banned from swimming for a day seems quite unkind.

Maybe you need to split up for the day so she can have a quieter day or a day she has some control over. We often don’t spend every day all together on holiday. Dh and I each take one off to do special activities they want to do. It means you actually get quality time together and it cuts some of the tension between siblings.

Are you giving her any choice over what to do? She might be struggling with lack of control

Not sure why you're surprised??
.she's five, completely out of her routine and not in her usual environment??

What more do you expect from her? This is why bucket and spade holidays not too far from home work with small kids