AIBU to think laws that fine and jail parents for school absence, outside term time holidays, are ridiculous?

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Is it a good law, fining parents for school absence? What are the good outcome measures, good citizens, with better mental health, peaceful country, reduced crime rates, homicide rates? Has it worked in your country?

Or is it a ridiculous law? Most parents, dream of and love to, have children who enjoy, thrive and excel in school. Parents may have other misdemeanours, but why turn school attendance into the battle ground, the yard stick to measure and punish? Perhaps consider is punishment the right way to go about this, what about the help for every child, and every parent who struggles?

I'm not talking about going on holiday during term time.

Yes, it is ridiculous set up.
I always thought that schools are England where overbearing before the fines. They take responsibilities from the parents, supplying pencil, markers, glue, education sheets, dinners, breakfasts. They are like parents.
Teachers are expected to restock them from their own pocket.
Now they’re fining parents.
The school set up looks like a nanny state from a distance.

You missed “education is free, be grateful and know your place” which is also on the thread.

I have never had this problem but I have made it very clear to my children that if they should ever refuse to go to school and I incur a fine for their actions they will be the one who will be paying the fine, not me or dad.
I will not be fined for someone else’s actions, different if I decided to book a holiday and take them out but I have a strong willed and defiant daughter who is young enough to be frog marched to and from the car but she will be a very skint defiant child if there are fines to pay for when she is too big to struggle with.

Research shows that over 85% of those who have severe/ permanent levels of absence are autistic. Perhaps if appropriate schools were set up that autistic children could attend without immense distress then the absence rates would be lower. The Government instead ignores this fact and thinks threatening parents will suddenly make their children able to attend regularly, and wants to try to force more of them to undergo this daily torture of the mainstream school environment.

Yep. The holiday fine stuff is a smokescreen. Quick, look over there!

1 in 4 children leave school without passing maths and english GCSE. to me this says that our education system has some huge problems if we cant after 12 years in formal education turn out young people with basic skills. we dont need an overhaul of the education system we need an overhaul of parenting. 1 in 4 youngsters start reception without being potty trained. and if I hear of another oh its adh whatever I think I will scream. it isnt. its laziness. parents who dont know or dont want to parent. taking them out of school on a holiday and fining them for it really is the least of this countries worries. Turning out a generation of kids who think having a label means they dont have to work, get PIP or who just cant read, write or add up is alarming and it seems like we are just sleepwalking into a tragedy here.

It would be interesting to see the data since fines were introduced, has it led to an improvement in attendance? TBH I would be surprised if it has.

This 100%. And that is not to take away from people who are genuinely autistic, SEN etc.

The challenge is finding a system that weeds out feckless parents while not being overly harsh on parents who are doing their best.

I tell my children all the time to be grateful for their education. I’m grateful for it. That doesn’t mean I’d never question anyone or raise an issue. But I’ve seen the impact a good teacher can have on my child - it’s amazing.

My neighbours have two primary aged kids and they have been off all summer, the frail granny who is 80 picks them up every day and has cared for the kids while the parents WFH. In late September they are taking the kids out of school for a holiday in the med somewhere for 2 weeks. This seems bonkers to me. Missing two weeks of school in September is really irresponsible. The kids have been out of their mind with boredom for the last weeks!! I hope they get a fine to be honest.

Depends on the holiday doesn't it as to whether it's educational or not. Lying round a pool no . Going to an elephant sanctuary or learning about ancient civilization , or practicing languages then yes

Are they just broke - can’t afford childcare or a summer price holiday?

I agree with this, and have worked in education for years.

It seems to work perfectly fine in most other countries.

I would say be appreciative of good teachers but being told to be “grateful” because a service you pay for via taxation is “free” is exactly how state services get away with poor service.

Its not free. That doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate good individual teachers, doctors, whatever. It does mean we should not be told to shut up and be grateful when they are poor or deliver poor services/care (which happens on pretty much every NHS or education thread).

Exactly.

How would you make parents accountable for low attendance?

How would you ensure those children not in school are safe, not committing crime and are not associating with criminals?

There is lots of discussion atm, about how we deal with feral youths who steal cars and drive them into police cars (killing the officers), a common answer is ‘blame the parents, make them accountable’.

For some, absence from school is part of the slide into criminality. The police do not have the resources to find/return/arrest, criminal children.

I’m not sure it has is that why the amounts were increased? Even then I don’t think it has made a difference.

We had a massive issue when took a term time break to see family abroad. The school demanded flight details etc etc we said no - we weren’t asking for authorisation we knew we would get a fine so we only needed to inform them of dates the dc wouldn’t be in. They were insistent, saying it was now a safeguarding matter. We still refused.

I’m puzzled why there so many comments about taking children out of school during term time for holidays. That’s not my intended discussion.

Well then give them the resources!

If a parent won’t do stuff like turn up to meet the school, commit to doing their best to make sure their kids attend and that homework is done you hit them where it hurts - deduct fines from social welfare or income at source.

We cannot continue to do so little about kids sliding into this behaviour because some kids have SEN. That’s ridiculous.

People need to start being afraid that they will be held criminally responsible for the actions of their children. Because clearly some of them think it’s ok to have kids and not take responsibility for them. Of the 5 kids who died in Ireland 1 was in the care of social services, two more were know to social services. It’s become acceptable to be feckless.

It’s not that black & white in all cases obviously.

You're brave posting this. Have you not seen all the threads on here (every year); that parents can't even deal with their children in the holidays we have? How the holidays are too long and often?
Anyway wouldn't the travel companies just put the prices up for longer? If schools extend holidays travel companies will expand expensive holidays.

Yes I see that, I just disagree.

Thank you for all the comments, it's interesting to see that many people think it is reasonable to penalise, fine or even jail parents, relating to school absence. I wonder if those who never experienced the difficulties of trying to get their teen who refused to attend, to school, somehow cannot see, the side of how ridiculous this is, and has little or no compassion for those who suffer and struggle.

It is an interesting subject but unless you can provide ‘evidence’ please stop saying parents get jailed for non-attendance. I haven’t seen any cases where they have. They might be sent to prison if they refuse to pay fines, but that happens to anyone refusing to pay Court fines.

I am not commenting on whether the current regulations and laws are right to address the issue but I dislike incorrect statements.

This country’s government views state education a favour.