AIBU to discuss GCSE and A-level realities with my Year 8 daughter?

[roughtrenches2]

DD is still young so I am aware this might sound a bit crazy. She is going in to year 8. So will pick her gcse options at the end of year 9. She is adamant she knows what she wants to do and has done for a long time but I don’t think realistically she is going to manage academically what it requires. Her friends older sister was talking about her GCSE choices the other day when I realised how much daughter has her mind set on this path. She soon told everyone what she was choosing for GCSE because then she could do her chosen A levels science ( biology and physics )

The issue is maths ! She is very science motivated and has done amazing in science this year BUT she will not get the maths grade required to do any A level sciences.
when do you start nicely having these conversations with your children without it sounding like you are being evil.

she has had a very turbulent start to education which she had done incredible considering but to catch up in maths would be a real task that will take a lot to get to a grade 7 she would need. I’m not sure if she even knows she would need a 7 in maths. Do I just let her go ahead and think this is the plan and dream until she finds out later on that it will be unlikely ?

sounds silly being worried about this now but I don’t want her to get crushed later on either.

Exactly this! Find a way to support her goals, you are lucky she has ambition, please encourage her!

All the tutoring in the world is not going to make A level maths accessible. GCSE absolutely, A level no way. Having said that A level maths is not the only way to go. Have a look at your local colleges they may well be offering T levels in Engineering or Science. These are difficult, respected qualifications but with out the all of nothing of A level maths.
Start having conversations about how there are different ways to get what you want and A levels is only one. I will be spending next week having conversations with students who have got 4s at GCSEs - decent results - telling them that A levels isn’t an option BUT there are plenty of other courses that will really help them on their career.

My life would be easier and there would be less tears if parents didn’t obsess over A levels. Only around 40% of young people do A levels, there are loads of really excellent alternatives these days - including apprenticeships.

This is an awkward age to decide about what you want to do with your life, most kids haven’t seen the full scope of careers available. I would take chances when something arises in conversation to talk about different careers, different subjects, different routes into careers.
Once they were into their exam years I would remind mine that these exams were like a gateway, you had to get enough to get to the next stage and in many cases could then leave some subjects behind.
If your daughter is getting good grades in physics she must be able to grasp some maths type concepts so maybe a few sessions with a tutor who would be able to relate the maths to the physics would help. She may have effectively developed a mental block about maths and setting really doesn’t help. Don’t know if there are any maths games online, not designed to follow the curriculum but just to develop an enjoyment of it.
The further through the school system you go the more the understanding of the underlying principles and the application of them replaces the learning facts/rote learning.
When she gets to the stage of applying to 6th form college if her science grades are high could you ask for special consideration on maths given that she had missed so much school for medical reasons?

Honestly my mum spent ages “managing my expectations” and it made me feel like I was not good at anything and really broke my confidence.

I’m a teacher now of 22 years. and my advice is two fold. Encourage her to talk about options. She will probably change her mind a lot. But She might have to make her options in year 8, so she might not. What I find is students are generally aware of their own abilities, it depends on maturity and personality- is she a realist or fantasist?
Secondly, spend a lot of time going through her school reports and discussing how that would be at GSCE. Go with fact not opinion and let her draw her own conclusion. At GSCE A 9 is 90% 8 is 80% etc . This is incredibly crude but useful tools.

If she is behind on maths now then she will suffer at Uni if she goes on to do a hard science or engineering course as Physics and even Chemisty can have a lot of maths in it.

If she is going for one of the softer sciences it's more likely she can do it without having significant maths capability.

You need to find out what her aspirations are in science and what she wants to do, then make sure she gets the maths capability in order to be able to do that.

That may be extra tutition for example if she wants to do mathematical sciences.

I would be looking to support her ambition by helping her to get her maths to where it needs to be. Given the amount of school she has missed, it is likely that there are some gaps in some of the basics and this will make grasping some of the secondary school content difficult, even if she’s capable enough of doing well. A good maths tutor should identify and fill in these gaps.

Bear in mind that it’s not just about getting the minimum grade to be allowed to do the course; if strong mathematical understanding isn’t there it could make further study more difficult. When I was in sixth form, some of the more average ability students who’d worked really hard to get Bs in maths and science at GCSE really struggled when it came to the A Levels in these subjects - it’s a big step up. She’ll fare better down the line if her maths is really secure rather than just-about-good-enough to be accepted to start the science A Levels. .

Having a bright academic child with physical health needs and complex neurodivergence who’s only ever been in part time school, and moving to a special school (for academically able young people) where they will be better supported but have a reduced curriculum and GCSE options… in your situation I wouldn’t hesitate to drop another subject to make space for some additional work on maths, if doing this on top of school would be too much. People who are saying bright children shouldn’t drop subjects aren’t factoring in the health needs. What’s true in an ideal world and what’s true in the reality of a situation are two different things!

We probably could have just about pushed full time school if our child had given up their extra-curriculars - 2 areas of natural talent and passion, either of which could ultimately become a career if they so choose - but we opted to support our child’s ambitions and school was always supportive.

And in your situation, it’s maths. It’s a core academic subject and could prove very useful even if your daughter changed her mind about what she wants to do long term.

Honestly the choices at gcse are very limited, certainly for my DC. Top 3 science classes did triple science rest did double (so can still do science a levels). Choose one of history geog. Choose a language unless school thing likely to fail. Choose one more subject (2 more if no language). So everyone does maths and science gcse. Worry about a level choices during year 11.

You dont need a level maths for science a levels and a 6 at gcse should be ok for chemistry or biology. Physics had a lot of maths so less good for someone who struggles with maths.

I’d get her a maths tutor and just say let’s try and improve your maths to help with the harder science in uear 11.

Accelerated 😂 Classic. Can’t talk about being a writer without making a typo, of course.

Generally, anyone who wants to do triple science will be able to - it's what the government has promised. Most A-level courses will accept a grade 6 around here for Science, though, speaking from experience, even in the "softer Sciences" (wtf are those), the demand is high for mathematical understanding. You are not going to pass Biology without a decent understanding of statistics and how to use and manipulate formulae, and those who struggled with Maths at GCSE also struggled with this side of things. Even worse for Psychology, Chemistry and Physics.

I'd advise taking triple Science - they're entitled to it - and seeing whether they actually still like the subject by the end of it.

Op tutoring is seen as a bad tiring thing but my DC who didn't like school thrived with her tutor because it was personal ,tailored to her and all at her pace.

You have plenty of time to act now and get a tutor to literally start from the bottom up.
Maybe even a primary teacher maths tutor to go from the foundations.

@MeridaBrave You will need A level maths for any science degree that’s involving physics. Maybe not for biology and psychology but chemistry - maths is needed. If dc want economics, then maths is almost always wanted. So yes, a few science degrees at lower level unis and a few other science degrees won’t require maths but to be secure on the courses, maths is often required.