AIBU to avoid close socialising with my friend's mate after his behaviour?

[Honeymare]

AIBU to think my friend needs to stop telling me how I should feel about this man?

The background to this happened years ago, but it is still causing arguments now.
I don't like my friend Claire's close friend Mark.

I had known Mark socially for nearly 20 years (this is now 30). We'd slept together a couple of times when we were about 20, but it was purely casual. We both went on to have serious relationships with other people and would still chat whenever we happened to meet on nights out.

In my 30s I moved to another part of the country which Mark passed through every so often. He started messaging when he was going to be nearby and we'd meet alone for coffee, go for a walk, get something to eat etc.
Nothing romantic was happening but this went on for a few years and I got to know him much better. I really looked forward to seeing him. We both had other romantic lives going on during this period.

Eventually we were both single.

One day he contacted me and asked me to set aside some time because he wanted to talk to me properly.

He took me for dinner and launched into this huge romantic declaration. He brought up things I'd said and done over the previous few years, said he had five things he looked for in a woman and I'd smashed all five and more, that he'd realised he'd fallen hard for me, that he'd spent ages thinking about the risks and implications and had finally decided, after talking to a mutual friend, that he had to tell me because his feelings weren't going anywhere.
It was extremely intense and romantic, utterly unexpected.

We talked for hours, got completely caught up in it and ended up in bed. Under normal circumstances that would have been far too fast for me but we'd known each other for years and had this existing friendship and yes a short sexual history, so it felt right.

Then the next day was very weird.
He stayed for a few hours, then left awkwardly. No kiss goodbye. I heard absolutely nothing from him, messaged him once then left it.

I thought, brilliant. What a tosser. I certainly read him wrong. We're pushing 40 here, I'm really not interested in someone making a massive declaration of fake feelings and then disappearing without a conversation.

My friend Claire was abroad while this happened. I didn't tell her about it.

When she came back, she said to me one evening, completely out of the blue, "Oh! I saw Mark yesterday. You didn't tell me you'd had a sneaky shag with him. He was worried because he hadn't called you afterwards and said he'd realised he wasn't in a place for a relationship, but I told him not to worry because you'd be cool about it."

She said it in a very jokey "haha, you've been up to mischief" way.

I said actually, no, I wasn't particularly cool about it and I wished she hadn't spoken for me. I also hadn't told her because I regarded it as private and between Mark and me.
I said I thought he'd behaved like a dickhead.

She became really argumentative. Mark was apparently a great guy, I was being uptight, it had only been casual sex and I was making a drama out of it because I was "obsessed with finding a husband".
I told her to leave it because I was getting upset and didn't want to discuss my sex life with her.

I also really resented the fact that Mark had discussed it with her rather than just speaking to me himself.

Anyway, Mark and Claire have since become very close friends.
And this is where the current problem is.
At least a couple of times a year Claire invites me to do something with the two of them. I always decline.

I don't make scenes if Mark is at a bigger social event. I've seen him plenty of times over the years. I'm friendly, say hello, make brief small talk and then move on and speak to somebody else.

I simply don't want to spend a rare night out sitting having drinks with him.

Every single time this comes up Claire gets offended. She'll say I'm insulting her friend. I'll say, "I'm not asking you not to be friends with him. I don't like him because of how he treated me."
She then demands to know exactly what happened between us and why I still dislike him.
I've never given her the full blow-by-blow account above because frankly I don't think I should have to submit evidence for why I don't want to socialise with someone.
Over the years she has also made pointed comments like "not every casual hookup is a potential husband" and "sometimes a ride is just a ride".
Which irritates me enormously because, whatever anyone thinks of Mark's behaviour, he very specifically did NOT present that night to me as a casual hookup.

So the present day problem -
Last weekend Claire and I had lunch in the city. Afterwards she suggested going for a drink. I said I'd come for a very quick sodt one because I had to drive home.
Then it transpired as we were walking to the bar she was going to meet Mark.
I said no thanks, I'd head home.
She completely lost her temper with me.
We ended up parting on really bad terms and I was wiping away tears walking back to my car.
Mark and I are both married to other people now, by the way. There is absolutely no lingering romance or hope of reconciliation here.
I just don't like him.
I think he behaved badly towards me, never addressed it with me himself, and I'm perfectly happy being civil when our paths cross while not actively choosing to socialise with him.
AIBU to maintain that boundary without giving Claire the entire intimate history to justify it? We haven't even exchanged texts since last weekend.

I’d feel exactly the same op. All v weird. I’d have definitely given her more of a blow by blow account of what happened though, just because I’d want her to see where I was coming from. Have you never spoken to him since??

I can be stubborn and I know that but I resented that she seemed to think she should be told as it was juicy gossip.

She still sometimes behaves Iike we are all teenage friends sharing details of people's private lives, sex, STDs or whatever.

She was single then, single now and very happy with it. She thinks I was unusual in my boundaries around looking for a partner and I suspect I've become the butt of a joke between them.

The more she pushes the more I think - I don't need to explain this to you.

I dgaf about him but I'm starting to resent her.

It sounds as though Claire and Mark are closer friends than yourself and Claire, is that right do you think?

Mark was a total rat bag using Claire to do his dirty work for him - letting you know he 'wasn't in the right place for a relationship.' or whatever excuse he had for laying it on thick and then disappearing. What a tosser.

It depends on how much you value your friendship with this Claire and how close it is - she doesn't sound that good of a friend to be honest and I can understand you not wanting to talk about your private life/ feelings with her.

You are under no obligation to explain yourself to her, she should respect your feelings and she sounds like she likes a gossip.

Tell her what happened she needs to know both sides of the story, if she doesn't believe you so be it. He may do the same to her one day.

I would be rethinking my friendship with Claire. She sounds like a dick.

I don't know if they are closer friends than Claire and I but now you mention it, it is very likely. I live further away now, have DC, they don't and get to socialise more so naturally would spend more time together.

That's fine with me!

Claire actively dislikes a friend of mine. She had a relationship with him as a teenage, hung out socially in our twenties a lot, less frequently in our thirties and now draws a hard line that she can't stand him and won't even do group meetups if he is there. I don't get into it with her, she's entitled to her opinion.

I wish she would take the same attitude to me and Mark. I really don't like spending time with him.

I have seen him since to answer a pp. I was very friendly and didn't dawdle. I just can't be bothered with it. I don't want to spend time in his company. I think he's a knob.

I suspect she will argue the case of "nobody owes you a relationship" and it will become this big theoretical discussion.

Maybe that's an excuse because i am actually extremely stubborn and I'm furious I'm being forced to defend my position.

I'm happy for her to be friends with him. She has no feelings for him whatsoever that aren't platonic. I'm sure he's a good friend to her. I've plenty of my own friends and don't need a twat like him around me.

"Claire actively dislikes a friend of mine. She had a relationship with him as a teenage, hung out socially in our twenties a lot, less frequently in our thirties and now draws a hard line that she can't stand him and won't even do group meetups if he is there. I don't get into it with her, she's entitled to her opinion."

There you are, Claire is a massive hypocrite!

I honestly think you'd really not be missing anything without her friendship, OP.

I suspect he’s given her a totally different version of events meaning your stance makes no sense to her. If you don’t want to tell her the story (why not if she’s a close friend?!), ask her what story he told her. Then you can say, ‘well, he’s told you a complete fabrication! If you want to know why I think he’s a dickhead, ask him to tell you the truth!’

Good luck xx

I think you may be right.

It's not Mark. I know it sounds like it is about him but it's not.

It's the being offended I didn't tell her all my boy news like we are teenagers. I have heard her and her other friends dissect personal situations of other people with no regard for privacy.

It's the mocking me and my 'husband hunting'. She still does this to be honest and had some made some kind of bitchy comments earlier that day.

So I guess we have changed and don't really fit anymore.

Claire sounds really weird and I’m not surprised you cba to give her the low-down.

Combine this with her attitude to her teenage ex I would definitely draw a line under your relationship with her too.

Oh wow. This is how to do it. It's so obvious and I don't know why I didn't think of it.

I kept thinking I had to tell my side and justify it. Every time I'd imagine explaining it I would get annoyed thinking how it was being forced upon me and I had wanted to keep it private.

I am going to do exactly what you said
"What exactly did he say happened? Well then I suggest you ask him for the actual truth... No I'm not sharing, I wanted to keep it private. He was the one who opted to involve you so ask him to tell you what actually took place. "

And then I will not say anything else about it.

That is perfect thank you.

Sorry to dripfeed but actually now that I'm remembering (it was all bloody ages ago) initially he seemed to have said to her "I feel really bad about what went on with Honeymare, I was just in no shape for a relationship" and she told me this with a huge laugh and quoted how she reassured him "what?! You and honeymare had a sneaky shag and now you think she's pissed? No way, she's cool, I'm sure she was happy to have a fun night"

I then said no I wasn't and I hadn't forgotten to tell her about it, I didn't want to tell her, it was private and she shouldn't have spoken on my behalf. Also if he had something to say about feeling bad he should be saying it to me not her.

She then brought it up a few weeks later like it was totally new information and I wondered if she'd been drunk the last time we discussed it.

It is definitely an issue between me and her. He's inconsequential.

Claire is a weirdo for constantly pushing you about Mark.

Mark is a creep. You’re wise to avoid him at every opportunity.

You have behaved with dignity at every turn.

To play devil’s advocate, from her point of view, all she knows is you hooked up and he told her it was a hook up, but he felt bad as maybe you wanted more. And she, from your history with the guy, thought nah, she won’t mind as you’ve hooked up before. He never told her what went on, what he said, the declarations, and how it ended up in bed because he was telling you he loved you and it got very emotionally charged.

She thinks it was a hook up, like you always had done, and he was worrying for nothing because why would you want more?

I wouldn’t have broadcast what happened to me friends, but once she got half the story, I would absolutely have filled in the gaps to explain that actually, he said all these things, I realised that I had fallen for him too, the sex was very much the “I love you” style, and then he just… left, and never contacted you again. I’d tell her all of that and say that you just have no interest socialising with him because he isn’t a good person. You’ve moved on and are happily married but you still have no interest in being around a man who actually deeply hurt and confused you. And then he told half a story to mutual friends, putting you into an embarrassing and upsetting position.

She doesn’t know, and I know you wanted it to be private but it isn’t. So you can leave your friend in a position of not fully understanding what went out and why you behave as you do, or you can tell her and ask her to please understand and stop it now.

She's being really weird about this. Unless you were previously a tight group of 3 friends that spent lots of time together, I can't see why she is desperate for you to be friends now. What impact does it have on her life that you don't want to hang out on him? Why is she so focused on trying to get you to spend time with someone you don't like?

I'd be the same in your position, if someone doesn't say anything about a relationship, or is up front and says they don't want anything serious, fine, I respect that (as long as their actions match). But I would lose trust in someone that basically was a friend who lied in a horrible way to get me into bed, that's not cool.

I know sincerely that everything you've said is reasonable. I've said similar to myself. But every time I read it and imagine having that conversation I feel a sort of internal tightening.

Not to turn this into a therapy session but it's a few things -

How dare she speak on my behalf?
Why does she think she's entitled to the details?
Why did she assume I would be cool with a 'sneaky shag' (vom). I had no interest in casual sex. We had hooked up 18 years prior two or three times, totally down to party drugs; I turned my back on that lifestyle shortly afterwards.

In her shoes I would (and have in similar situations) one hundred percent have thought "oh Honeymare never mentioned it, I guess I'm not supposed to know, I'll say nothing".

And I truly hate the teenage friendship group dynamic (also sex and the city episodes) where all your private business is there to be shared and dissected with your friends.

So maybe I am unusual with this but I really resent the pressure to defend my position. I want to meet up with people I like when I'm free (rare) and have pleasant fun interactions.

i dont think you ABU regarding not discussing any aspect of this with Claire,its your prerogative .
I think there would be some benefit in doing so though. Claire knows one side of this and thats why she thinks you problematic in this situation. if you want to remain friends with Claire tell her you would like to explain your side of this story and tell her how badly he treated you and that is why you dont like him and dont wish to see him socially .
If she still thinks you are the problem and keeps pressing you to meet him,Claire isnt your friend .

I'd also not be happy with her trying to get you to meet him by stealth, when you've made your boundary pretty clear and she has the same boundary about one of your friends. Have you asked her why she won't respect your boundary when you respect hers?

I agree with everything you’ve said. Like I said, I wouldn’t have told my friends about this. Maybe, if I was in love with him, then I’d have told someone just to have a cry to. But I wouldn’t have told any mutual friends or friend group about it. It really was none of their business. She isn’t entitled to explanations or any of your private life.

But she has been given half a story, clearly isn’t getting the hint that something else was going on by your reaction and isn’t respectful of your wishes to not socialise with this man. I think, due to her behaviour, you have two choices - tell her everything and ask her to just stop now, and to understand. Or end your friendship with her.

I personally wouldn’t continue the friendship with her, but the option of telling her is there. If you want to maintain the friendship without her banging on about this.

He was a very good friend to you until he declared undying love, slept with you and then dumped you.

I'm sorry OP but Claire doesn't seem like much of a friend to you.

agree. even if you took the whole background with Mark out of it, or if it was more of a 50/50 issue (I don't think it was and think he behaved like a dick and you are perfectly entitled not to want to spend time with him), at the end of the day it doesn't matter. You're not stopping her from seeing him, you're not bitching about him to her, you're not making her choose between you, you're even prepared to be polite to him in short doses. You literally could not be behaving more maturely about the whole situation.

There is literally no detriment to her from you and Mark not being best mates. She needs to get over it! There's no reason you should need to want to meet up as a three, you were never a three to start with so it's not as if you're ruining some long-term friendship. She's being really selfish and pathetic.

I also think it's weird that other posters are suggesting telling her more details of what happened. She absolutely doesn't 'need' to know both sides. All she needs to know is you don't want to be friends with Mark. I'm sure you're not friends with lots, even most, of her friends, family, colleagues and acquaintances, that's how human relationship circles work!

She isn't much of a friend by the sounds of it. My friends don't behave like this and I wouldn't be friends with anyone who did.

Claire is not your friend. Friends support and help each other, not drag you down until you cry. Let her go so you can find a better, kinder friend.