AIBU to think neurodivergence across families should not be surprising?

[alkwjeoin]

I realise this might be a controversial opinion, and I say this as a neurodivergent mum of a neurodivergent child.

One thing I often notice on MN is threads where mums of ND children are frustrated by their husbands' behaviours—behaviours that sound very similar to those they describe in their children. It seems to come up again and again.
I'm not suggesting that neurodivergent people shouldn't have children—far from it. But if one or both parents are neurodivergent, there's a reasonable chance their children will be too, and that inevitably shapes family life.

What surprises me is how often this seems to come as a shock. People describe their partner's ND traits as a major source of stress while also discussing their child's diagnosis, without seeming to connect the two. Equally, there can be an expectation that becoming a parent will somehow change or lessen a partner's neurodivergent behaviours, when of course it doesn't. In fact, parenting and the associated stresses usually increases them.

As awareness and diagnosis of neurodiversity increase, I wonder whether we also need to become better at recognising that neurodivergence often runs through the whole family—and thinking about what that means,especially in terms of kids etc.

I certainly dont want to blame the mums - thats not the point. The point more is for those who post why is Dh not doing....fill in the gaps....while am shattered looking after 2 ND kids - at least in some of these cases because he's also ND. It means normal rules, I guess dont apply in the same way as normal rules towards your kids dont apply. It is not as simple as saying he aint pulling his/her weight.

The other aspect is that - your partner if they have a job plus family and kids - is probably the success story of what will happen to your kids. Nd kids grow up to be Nd adults. Your kids today are your partner tomorrow.

I am not being gendered and as an ND female - appreciate that both mums and dads can be Nd, its just that on MN the usual format is a mum writing in about a useless dad while struggling with Nd kids.

No the diagnosis for my DS made me think about DH, he has OCD, anxiety, cannot stand change (eg if I said get bourbons and then text him and said actually get strawberries he’s freak out and call me and say he has gone past that aisle and could not possibly go back)… also he wears the same outfit all the time … he has lots of the same clothes basically. Same jeans and T-shirts and same shorts.. like identical and he struggles so much on work clothes or events and what to wear …

@Boundaries198 to go out on a limb here - but did you not just assume he was Nd the minute you met him? And I dont mean that this wouldnt make him a great person etc - but how would you assume that he was anything other than Nd? And somewhere down the line - that your kids may also end up being like that.... Genuine question

I know Ill be shot to pieces but as someone involved in education I see kids who are genuinely "neurodivergent" and need support and a lot of kids who are just badly parented and behaved. Disrupting lessons with a smirk on the face and telling a teacher to f... off is not down to being neueodivergent. That is poor behaviour that has gone unchecked. Parents then look for an excuse and a label to justify their poor parenting and child's behaviour. The number of kids being "diagnosed" has rocketed. I dont think it is because the medical profession is getting better at diagnosing. Just more people trying to understand why their child is not behaving or "normal".
I think its a result of far bigger things like not letting kids out to play on their own anymore or plonking them in front of a screen etc... I heard someone say once that we are all on the spectrum, that is what makes us human beings unique. I could look at my DH, 4 kids and me and argue that we are all neurodivergent in some way but what does it actually mean? In the meantime more and more are seeking ECHP's which realistically cannot be met with current levels of funding or training. Do I think geniune neuro divergence is inherited? Yes.

I suppose it’s partly because it’s so accepted that dads don’t do as much as mums, that it doesn’t register as anything other than ‘typical man being a useless dad’. And if you’re drowning in the stress of parenting ND children, you may not have the capacity to think on it any further, especially if your DH appeared NT in the early part of your relationship. I’ve seen posts on here about ND husbands losing interest after the first few years because you’re no longer their ‘special interest’, but how could you know that beforehand.

Plus, if you do recognise the signs of ND, then what? Accept you’ll get no help? Add to your workload by setting up another set of assessments to get a diagnosis?

DH and I are both your stereotypical socially awkward science fiction fans, and we both have ND traits, but I doubt we’d get a diagnosis now. Luckily having children didn’t throw us off-kilter. DD is very like I was as a child, but struggles more than I did, so we’ve started the assessment process for autism. If I hadn’t known more about ND traits due to the wider awareness in the past ten or so years, it probably wouldn’t have registered with me. I would have just thought she was shy and socially awkward like me, and would get better as she got older.

My DH doesn't have any diagnosis, but he definitely shares some characteristics with AuDHD DD2. If we didn't have her then I don't think we would have noticed. If anything, he seems to think that her quirks are normal, and surely everyone is like that - he said as much in her autism assessment.

Part of why I didn't notice earlier is that I didn't know him as a child. He had grown out of things by the time I met him at 18. For example, DD2 won't wear jeans. DH wouldn't wear jeans until 16, but he looked pretty normally dressed when I met him.

DD2 has inattentive ADHD. If DH shows ADHD traits, it would also be inattentive. But that is a much more 'girl' form of ADHD, so I doubt anyone was looking for it when he was a child. I do all of the family organisation and have organised things like holidays since we met, so there's not so much demand on DH, which probably masks some of his organisation struggles. It's only since we have had DC that I've had to rely on DH for things like collecting our DC. Having to manage him doing these things can be stressful as I hate the idea of them being left uncollected. He's pretty good at using his phone to remind him, but it is so different to me - I just know who needs to be where and when. So, just like many other posters, it's the complication of having DC that has caused these traits to be more apparent.

@EllieQ so I am not sure what the solution is or even the point. However, it's somewhat different asking a question about what do we do about a partner who is being difficult while one is looking after Nd kids depending on whether they are Nt or Nd. It may not be a nicer outcome but I think it is somewhat different. For example, getting a diagnosis may help the partner to figure out why they are the way they are.

You can also figure out where you cut your losses e.g. if your partner cant do paperwork because they are Nd - then for the preservation of one's household I would probably recommend doing it for them. Yes, there are blokes who are great at paperwork at work but not at home. However, as an adult with Nd - am genuinely crap at both. No point in me doing that in the house.

However, Nd people do have strengths and can obviously do stuff. But the question of whether they can change this or whether it's inability or laziness is also an issue we always have with kids - the challenge is real.

However, if we think it's useful to get a diagnosis for kids and to assume adjustments are necessary - does it suddenly stop at 18? Or do we need that insight into our partner and figure out what accommodations we can live with?

The difference between having a partner and raising Nd kids - is that we cant walk away from our kids. We can from a partner. And thats why life outcomes for Nd kids are worse - because not many people will put up with their crap whether that's future partners or employers. Which in a way is sad both for our kids and for our partners. Equally the way we react to our partners being Nd is actually the way that future partners will react to our own kids because our kids also wont magically become Nt at 18.

I think the problem is that ND is generally easier to manage pre-children, I know mine was and so was my ex partners. It became stark when we had children and that he wasn't willing to get help or change in anyway whatsoever, and I wasn't willing to accept his anger as well as managing my child being of a similar nature to him.

It's ll well and good saying, well you knew he was ND, yes it was what attracted me in the first place but then you put that in the context of children, running a homeless and stress, it's a big NO from me.

People who are unable or unwilling to address their negative ND traits or at least put in some coping mechanisms for it (like I've had to) can't then expect to have a free ride.

TBF, the term ND is relatively new in everyday talk (counsellors/medics/teachers etc aside).
In the 90s, we knew the term autism, but it was only used about a very small number of people-maybe a couple in each class? While now (if you're millennial, adjust as necessary!) several of your classmates will have recent AuDHD etc diagnoses.
In every AIBU on any page, you can bet there will be discussion of ND. In similar discussions/agony aunt columns from the 90s/00s, it wasn't brought up.

So depending how long these people have been married, it's not surprising no one thought about it.

Hmm I don't really agree.

Because what I'm saying is, regardless of any diagnosis, you'll know the person you're marrying and should be able to gauge how difficult life is likely to be with them.

Unless as I say, you marry very quickly.

“Even putting labels aside, though, if your child turns out to be neurodivergent, surely one of the first questions to ask is whether one or both parents might be too”

I always thought it was down to my kids brain issues, then when I did some courses I started to clock on my brother, DH and MIL.

I didn’t cotton on to DH til then, we met young when I was clueless about the world to be fair.

I do wonder whether whenever a child gets a diagnosis - maybe the docs should ask whether parents have considered themselves or their family. Perhaps they do - but I had already discussed familial links prior to a formal diagnosis for my child.

I also dont think that being Nd excuses being lazy or getting angry - but it may help for people to understand themselves and their partners better. It may also help to be able to structure ones life a little differently

Perhaps what surprises me is not the situation itself, but how often people seem genuinely shocked by it.

I’m surprised that you’re surprised by this OP.
Neurodivergence as a term only started being used in the 90s maybe?

I didn’t know anybody who was neurodivergent growing up in the 80s. I mean, I probably did…if it were understood then as it is today, but it simply wasn’t. Aspergers only started being diagnosed mid 90s. Far fewer people had diagnoses then, and if they had they were quite seriously affected. The diagnostic criteria include far more people now.

Basically what I’m saying is that people often don’t realise until after they have kids that they or their partner is ND, because they have no idea what it looks like.

But the behaviour they see must have been present before otherwise it’s not ND, surely?

Often the posters are ND themselves in ways that make it difficult to notice connections.

E.g. My diagnosed autistic child experiences sensory overwhelm in crowded places, has meltdowns when out of routine, and struggles with special days and celebrations. My husband, meanwhile, is a controlling arse who sabotages every family holiday, never acknowledges our anniversary, and uses weaponised incompetence to get out of doing the weekly shop in the big Sainsbury’s at peak time on a Saturday.

(Any subsequent poster who points out the obvious gets eye-rolls and told they’re making excuses for crap men).

Good thread, OP.
I had no idea DP was ND. Like a PP's DP, he had always been a little unusual, but I guess I just didn't know what I was looking at. He had strong, niche specialist interests which he excelled at and spent an inordinate amount of time on. He had occasional bouts of anxiety, a kind of extreme social awkwardness which, in our social group was accepted with a shrug, and a compulsive nature around organisation. He also had a sibling with LDs and autism and no relationship to speak of with his family. But, like a PP said, before DC we pretty much managed our own affairs so it wasn't really obvious -we had a good time. We had 2 DC quite close together, and it wasn't really until I was about to return to work following my second maternity leave that the wheels started to come off for DP. They've never really come back on again -once he'd cracked under the pressure of parenting not one, but two, young children, it seems he was never able to rally completely again. Both DC are ND, and I can see DP's traits in both of them. My life is almost all about facilitating, easing, planning ahead and taking on the lion's share of things now.

If I had known how to 'join the dots' and recognised DP's traits for what they were before DC, and understood how things might unfold, I would have thought twice about having them. I'm not saying that lightly -I love my DC with the whole of my being, but life is hard for them.

It would be helpful if, at the point of diagnosis of children and young people, there was an opening to discuss further ND in the family system and perhaps offer support, as it is recognised that parenting disabled DC is big stressor, and that outcomes for families with disabled DC are generally improved with support and intervention.

As a diagnosed ND person with 3 x diagnosed ND children and a ND husband. I definitely agree that it is hereditary.

What I disagree with is the assumption that arseholes are pigeon-holed as neurodiverse. It is entirely possible, I daresay, usual for ND people to be loving, kind people.

So I am not implying that ND people is just a by word for arsehole. However, when people write in they have ND kids? I also think that it is extremely hard to take care of ND kids particularly as it usually means one or both are also Nd.

Parenting ND kids is also not always same as other disabilities as not all disabilities are hereditary. And I do think it is hard to for example co-regulate when you yourself are often disregulated etc etc therefore more family support that also looks at wider diagnostic would be helpful

I think it’s well known it can be genetic , I think it’s the severity that can be varied . People who have children with ND themselves or with ND partners can’t be surprised their child can have it .

Sure, but they don’t know they’re at higher risk of having an autistic child because of their partners behaviours (or their own), because they don’t recognise the signs of ND.

Probably the situation is changing now as people are becoming more aware, but that awareness is a relatively recent thing. And even now, unless you’re living with someone who’s ND, you probably won’t understand what it really means.

@alkwjeoinbecause we met in our early 20s (like 22) at Uni… and yeah I guess there was stuff but in 2002 no one in my life was ND that I knew off, I guess maybe there could have been things about his personality that showed me, but I don’t know he was regulated if that makes sense… and now with the stress of an ND child and he holds a very very senior stressful job, plus PTSD from having a child in NICU, things just became exacerbated. I do think very strongly I have ADHD and although not formally diagnosed my clinical psychologist that I go to for my own sanity lol has said it’s very very likely.

So yes it’s not easy. My child takes a lot of co-regulation and I guess I do it for DH too and it breaks me - often!

It may have been less obvious, if life was less stressful. For example, the ND partner could have been doing well at masking while with their partner and getting enough time to decompress afterwards, but that all falls away after children. I also found I was a lot less tolerant of DH’s quirks while sleep deprived, like his long and rambling conversations that could have been covered in just a few words. Prior to that, I’d enjoyed listening to him, but I just didn’t have the time or patience anymore 😀

Plus so few people knew about ND in the 90s/ 00s, except the classic autism/ disruptive boys examples, so ND behaviour would have just seemed like being a bit odd/ quirky. I met DH at uni in the late 90s. I remember one Saturday where he was having a D&D session with friends in the late afternoon, then he was going to pick me up to go out. He didn’t turn up, and I had no way of contacting him (no mobiles; didn’t have the number for the friend’s house where they were meeting; wasn’t even sure of the address). When he sheepishly turned up the next morning, he explained that he’d ‘just lost track of time’ and they hadn’t finished the session until after 11, so he thought it was too late to call. Classic ADHD time blindness and hyper focus, right?

But I had no idea of that at the time, and was really unimpressed that I’d been stood up for D&D (and I like D&D!). I forgave him, obviously, and he hasn’t done anything like that again, but looking back it’s so obvious now.

Really interesting thread OP.

I see and agree re the obvious link within families that you point out often being missed.

I also agree with PP that awareness of ND traits and how to fit them together is really recent and the knowledge to make the links just wasn't available for many people until a few years ago.

The additional thing, which I have noticed in my own family, is that those of us who grew up in families with ND often normalise and repeat the patterns they grew up with. This is precisely because ND is genetically linked, clustering in families, and therefore becomes the sea in which some of us swim.

I'm NT, and my extended family has what I now recognise to be about a 50% ND hit rate of high-functioning autism and a scattering of associated traits. Of my DF's sibling group, 3/4 would probably be diagnosed now and it cascades down through the cousins. Only one is so affected as not to be able to live independently. But lots of us NT ones have married partners who I would say are ND, me included.

I didnt recognise it at first, because it's so normal to me for the male partner to be a bit checked out socially, a bit unusual in approach, and actually I was probably subconsciously comforted by the similarities to my parent's marriage, despite also knowing how bonkers my dad drove my mum.

(Edited - typo)

I agree that it's often the apple does not fall far from the tree, and if there is a trait in your partner that is irritating before having kids, it's likely to only get more irritating after. Of course, some traits only become irritatingly visible after the stress of children.

However, the "did you not just assume he was Nd the minute you met him" refrain is to treat that the focus and understanding around ND has always been the same, it absolutely hasn't. It also ignores that ND traits are human traits also seen in NT people, it's only meets the criteria for an ND diagnosis when enough traits and enough difficulties come together.

It also ignores that those posting who are frustrated at their partners may also be ND - we can irritate each other sometimes, we can be quite incompatible with each other, our own ND traits can be part of why we're struggling with our ND children.

When I was young, you'd only get a diagnosis if you were quite severely impacted and couldn't mask. I was a 'therapy kid' from an early age, I basically got very similar support in school to what my 15 year old gets now in social and emotional support, but no one discussed it as neurodivergence or anything close to diagnostic. It was around reducing reckless and risky behaviours, and improving self esteem to reduce that. The closest we got to diagnostic was in discussions that we were at higher risk of killing ourselves, intentionally and otherwise, and discussions of tools to help prevent that.

Three of my children were diagnosed post-secondary. Each time, my husband and I are asked if we suspected anything when they were young - the answer is no. To us, the ND is the norm and we couldn't have labelled it in each other or in our kids. The traits were there and we can draw them back to others in the family tree, it just wasn't the lens to view our children through at the time.