To think pensions need huge reform?

[aburrsir]

With all of the recent chat over changing politicians and big ideas that don’t go anywhere, I can’t be the only one who thinks that someone needs to bite the bullet with pensions?

It’s something ridiculous like 50% of the welfare budget annually, and this is never going to go away.

IMO the government need to hike up retirement age and scrap the triple lock. There can be provisions made to go along with this to phase this in for those in genuine need (e.g. for the next 10 years those with no private pensions can get a top up to cover the transition period).

I’d rather know “look you can’t retire until 75” now than this constant “it’s 67…. now wait it’s 68…..” that never ends.

It seems that all governments are scared to do such a big change as it will piss off older people (who are the primary voting demographic) but something needs to change as this is just completely unsustainable long term.

We’re better off making these changes to ensure the state pension can continue sustainably in the long term future rather than having this attitude of “as long as I’m alright I don’t care”

We need a gov with long term planning goals and not just short term firefighting. AIBU?

In the next 5/6 years work for a significant number of us will not exist and we will all live off UBI indefinitely so I’m not worrying too much about my pension which won’t be claimable for 25 years after that, by which time the concept of money and pensions will hopefully be long obsolete.

The triple lock will go but not for today’s cohort of course & the age is 68 for young people but will likely go to 70

Blimey, no wonder my adult DC have decided not to have children! Life has become a miserable experience.

Also the demographics are such that there are more people who will vote for short term policies which benefit them as opposed to long term ones that will come to fruition when they are dead.

It doesn't sound "harsh", it sounds like obnoxious, ageist bullshit.

And are you fuck seeing pensioners "living the high life". You mean they're not in penury as you apparently think they deserve going by your next statement "I don't know a single one who can't afford to eat". Is that how you think they should be living?

BullSHIT

The pensioners who are poor will be the ones 'selfishly' keeping their council properties, of course you don't meet them. Does anyone remember that pensions have been 'reformed', several times. The last time was when the pension age jumped from 60 to 66 for women, with no compensation, and is now 67. What happened to all that money? These are 'boomers' who are affected so not only did they take everything and have million pound houses but they also lost years of their pensions.
Before the moving of the pension age there were various other 'reforms' which always seem to leave us worse off. What are the latest suggestions? Abolish pension credit? They're doing that by stealth. Raise the pension age again? Already happening. Make everyone take out private pensions? Already happening. Open poor houses for old people who didn't manage their money properly? Don't give them ideas. Honestly, what is the answer? State assisted suicide seems to be gaining traction.

Yes I know - I’m over 55. The post I replied to suggested people should be allowed to access their workplace pensions earlier than retirement age. I was pointing out that they already can.

Sime big think tank modelled this and because (as a nation) we are in such poor health with many people over the age of 65 with multiple health conditions it just doesn't stack up. The sickness benefits outway the removal of the state pension.
It does need reforming but there are other ways to provide state pensions. Many countries have a contribution element over the life course. So there is minimum but you can get more if you contribute more. They also have actual funds that can than be utilised for investment (a massive problem for the uk) whereas are model relies on current tax payers.

Silly, ill-informed comment with a touch of ageism thrown in for good measure 🙄

I think my point wasnt that you cant access it, but that its still tied to state pension age and at reduced rate. I get the reduced rate is because you claim it for longer, but if state age increases more people are going to be relying on 'retiring early'

if state pension age is 75 and I can only get a reduced rate of my own money at 65 it doesnt feel like what I signed up for as when this pension started state pension age for women was actually still 60, although it was about to change to 65. Lots of policies shifted wording for new entrants from saying a specific age like 55 to 10 years before state pension allowing the age to climb higher.

Im sick to death of the government throwing tax payers money away. Billions wasted on HS2, millions wasted on the Rowanda plan, millions sent to other countries, (half of which either dont even need it, like China or arent providing the service we're paying for, like France), millions on supporting people who have never paid a penny into the system....Yet when we look to cut back, who do we look to first? Those who HAVE paid into the system all their lives. Its fucked up.

In the long run no state pension and you just save up with a private pension and retire when you want to

Ten years is no time at all for someone to pay into a pension to replace the already meagre state pension. People would never have enough and would end up on pension credit, which costs much more than the state pension because it opens up council tax discounts, warm home, winter fuel allowance and lots of other benefits alongside, so would cost more than the state pension.

You could only make state pension reform work if you start with the generation currently starting work. Everyone else’s saving is predicated on there being a state pension, albeit not until an increasingly advanced age. The advent of mandatory workplace pensions is a good thing, but great swathes of people on minimum wage won’t have a hope of building sufficient funds to live on in retirement without a state pension.

I am a firm believer in the social contract and that we owe our elderly a decent retirement. You could set up a very expensive means-testing system, but that would increase the overall bill. Or you could introduce a special tax band for pensioners so that all those with a modest workplace pension could keep that in its entirety alongside their state pension, and avoid needing additional state help in the form of other benefits. Then you’d still be taxing the wealthiest pensioners, about whom everyone complains, but allowing everyone else to keep the pensions they worked for and based their retirement plans around.

I think we need to get rid of the triple lock - it's done its job. I think it's fair for the state pension age to rise a bit, so people spend about the same proportion of time in retirement vs working as previous generations did, and taking account of life expectancy now.

To pull other levers, we could make sure that women don't get penalised for having children, men share the load and we subsidise childcare more, so that we encourage birth rates to go up. If we don't do that, we will need to encourage more immigration so we have more young tax payers to support pensioners.

We could also spend more on preventative health and encourage people to exercise more, eat more plants and wholefoods (like in Denmark) and drink less so that they stay healthier for longer.

So currently my plan is to tighten my belt I pick up extra work to boast my pension for the next 10 years I might as well not bother because your plan would take any extra off me
I might as well have more free time work less and spend more now

Disagree about raising the pension age.

The only change that actually needs to happen is to change the state pension so that it increases in line with average earnings. If that happened, the pension system would become more affordable, pensions would be guaranteed to keep pace with the economy (rather than faster) and Uk borrowing costs are likely to fall as government spending is under control. It would be a massive win for everyone - including pensioners who would still get increases which are higher than inflation.

YABU to obsess over reducing public spending. The UK already spends a lot less per GDP on this than most other European countries. This race to the bottom in the U.K. is incredibly grim. Allow older people to retire and live in peace. Consider that billionaires wealth is spiralling and they’re paying zero tax. The rich are getting astronomically richer at our expense, quite literally.

I wonder what age you are OP. Many of us in our 50s/60s were effectively promised that we'd get a state pension at some point and planned with that income in mind. Not everyone has a generous occupational plan or the plan hasn't delivered as it should have. Successive governments have been changing the goalposts and you want to change it even further.

Do you have extremely well-off retired parents by any chance or if they aren't would you be happy to see them struggle.

I don’t really see what you mean, what exactly is being taken off you?

Its possible that fit and healthy people with office or WFH jobs could be working at 75. Less likely for manual workers with heavy physical jobs. Like it not, for most of us, the body weakens and health declines.

I have to disagree with you, @arethereanyleftatall - it is expensive being frail - if you can’t do all the simple things, like shopping or housework in the way you used to, you may well need to get help with these things - and that help is not cheap.

Hold up you think it's unfair to start with the boomers? The generation that owns 55% of property in the country but fair to dump the burden on millennials and gen z who have been plagued with job insecurity, predatory rent, student debt and are facing a world where they're replaced by AI.

Both of my parents are decidedly working class (and at the poorer end of that too). Of course I wouldn’t want to see them (or anyone!) struggle. That’s why I was saying anything would need to be staged with plenty of notice. As a pp said, this could perhaps be by announcing big changes to apply for those born from 2020 onwards for example.

The triple lock needs to be scrapped sooner rather than later but other big reforms certainly should have lots of notice for those who need it

How old are you OP? I’m guessing that you haven’t had much experience of working after the age of 60? I have. I’m now off sick because I simply cannot cope physically or mentally with the high levels of stress in my role. Unlikely to return to work and struggling to find an alternative.