AIBU to wonder if grandmas birthday message breached the restraining order?

[Happychappy77]

My ex wife has a restraining order meaning she cannot have direct or indirect contact (through social media or third party)for the next 10 years due to the abuse she put me through. It was my dd 3rd birthday on Saturday (full custody) and I received a message from exs mum, dd grandma. ‘Hey can you wish dd a happy birthday from all of us on this side as we don’t have contact at the center this week’ I spoke to my family about it and some think I should report it as a possible breach as ‘all of us’ implies ex too but I don’t want to overreact i think it might be a bit of a reach as emotions are high but admittedly it has sat funny with me dd has supervised contact with her mum at a center a few times a month. Had a few messages recently where the message seems okay on the surface but there’s a lot of ‘we feel’ and ‘us’. Tia :)

Yes, but it’s not clear who ‘her’ is because the OP has written it in one unpunctuated sentence — hence whether it’s the ex’s mum or the ex who has supervised contact.

I don't think you are overreacting at all.

10 year restraining order and contact with the mother only in a contact centre is very serious.
Clearly what happened was very serious (and you don't need to tell us anything about it), enough the the courts have taken very tough measures on your ex.

Im not an expert in this, but based on the very little I know, I think all instances either direct or indirect should be reported.
I know it was the grandmother who sent the card, but abusive ex partners will do anything, including using family members, to breach restraining orders.

I think you should take this seriously.

OP report this, and the police can decide if it’s a breach or not. Either way it creates a paper trail if this behaviour continues. From personal experience, police have strongly spoken to my in-laws about similar communication and they have been warned that continuing to do this puts the perpetrator at risk of imprisonment, as this can be perceived as third party breach.

I don't think you're being unreasonable to be overly cautious on this but I also don't think you can or should read too much into the message. "us all" or "we all" can mean a sweeping whole family - it's all the aunts and uncles and cousins and both grandparents and so on. It must be hard to have that contact end or be restricted when you're not the one who's caused the harm in the first place (although I completely understand why it's ended up this way).

Also - even if she has included your ex in the "us" and "we" - does that make a difference to the current agreement? I guess yes if your ex has pressured her into sending that message but it's a no if your ex's mum knows your ex would be wishing your child a happy birthday.

I'd err on the side of letting this one go as it doesn't make enough of a difference because it's really unclear. I'd assume she just means a generic "us" and not a pointed "us", I'd say "grandma says happy birthday" to your child and leave it at that.

FWIW, it's very normal for someone who's been abused to be more sensitive to this kind of thing than the average person.

I don't think there's much point in reporting it, although I'd certainly screenshot it. But I'd absolutely have ruminated over it for days.

Please don't be critical of yourself for being concerned about this. You must be a genuinely courageous person to have not only survived abuse, but even reported it and got a restraining order. 💐

I read this as others have said, from Grandparents, aunts etc. If you generally have a good relationship with them and DD has contact with them then I'd leave it this time but if your experience is of them minimising your ex's behaviour then I'd view it differently. Regardless, I'd screenshot it and keep it for future reference in case there are further messages that start to make this a pattern.
I'm so sorry you've had this experience and hope you both find some peace going forward.

I would say the same as pp.

From all of us on this side = grandma, grandad, aunties, uncles, cousins and yes probably her mother too. I would let this one go and assume it was done with best intentions and without grandma thinking it through.

Unless her mother has a restraining order too, I would take it to mean herself, her partner, and any aunties/uncles/cousins etc. Your ex wife has NOT been in touch, therefore she has not breached the restraining order. As long as the grandparents are still legally allowed to contact you, nothing is wrong with this - though I can completely see why it may seem unsettling.

I have no direct experience of this but going against the grain I do think this should be reported as OP mentions other examples of “we” or “us” being used by Grandma as well so it isn’t a one off.
Grandma needs to be more careful and her messages should not be open to interpretation, it sounds like she needs to be reminded of the terms of the restraining order in an official capacity.
Sending strength OP x

Your ex wife has NOT been in touch, therefore she has not breached the restraining order.

She has if she is behind grandma sending the message. She doesn't have to have sent the message herself, the restraining order will specify that there should be no contact through third parties. But as grandma hasn't said that 'ex has asked me to pass on birthday wishes to DD' it can't be proved whether she has or hasn't. Therefore there is no point in reporting it. BUT I do recommend that the OP keeps the message. It might be a painful reminder of the past but he needs it in case it starts to be a pattern.

I think I would either ignore it or respond and say ‘I will tell DD granny and (grandad/uncle/auntie or whoever granny lives with) say happy birthday’ to put the boundary in place that you’re not passing on messages from your ex, but without being confrontational.

"can you wish dd a happy birthday from all of us on this side as we don’t have contact at the center this week"

Is it the "all of us" or "we don't have contact" that you have an issue with?

"all of us" is fine, assuming there are more family members than just ex-wife and her mother.

"we don't have contact at the center this week" only makes sense if family members other than ex-wife ever visit the centre for contact time with DD. Is that the case? Or is it only ever with ex-wife?

Anybody just random.restraining orders because they feel like it? Or are you just wanting some juicy details.

Your immediate reaction to the message is perfectly understandable @Happychappy77
10 year restraining order is serious and for those wanting more information, that alone should tell you all you need to know.

Hope your daughter has a fabulous birthday. Good luck to you on your journey too.

Kindly, from a legal perspective you are being unreasonable especially if DDs grandma sees her with grandad or other family.

She might have meant it the way you worry but its a stretch. Id ignore this one

She would have been better to word it: 'Thinking of X on her birthday, Love Grandma.'

I mean presumably you KNOW there is no contact this week, so reminding you of it and explaining why 'all of us' can't give her the message in person does seem a bit -well, churlish at best, 3rd party contact at worst.

That said, I think as the restraining order pertains to you, you need to decide what you are comfortable with. Would you have thought of 'report' if family , members hadn't suggested?

I'm sorry, it sounds so difficult. There has obviously been a lot of conflict and trauma in your life, so for your own equilibrium, I would put it down to cock-up not conspiracy this time, but have a zero tolerance were it to happen again.

I would take legal advice on this. I understand why you're concerned that you're being drawn into indirect contact. It might be that grandma needs a solicitor's letter setting out some formal boundaries around the use the word 'we' and 'us'.

I'd screen shot it in case there are issue in future - but currently I'd assume the us was GM - and extended family and it's just worded a bit poorly or ambiguous enough reporting will go no-where unless the is a clearer pattern of breaching order.

All you have to say to child if anything is happy birthday from GM - or not mention it at all as 3 year old do not have great memories and they can do it when they next see her at contact center.

Can you clarify, in the message did she say our daughter or the name of your daughter, ie, can you tell if its your ex using her mums phone? Also if its just your ex who is at the contact centre why is her mum saying she won't see her at the contact ctr?

Id log it with police as Intel. It must have been an awful situation if she has an sso and ro

I think you’re right not to take that message further.

o think you’re right to monitor the situation.

I also think you’re right to ask others who aren’t involved for advice and opinions. When you’ve been abused it’s hard to see the trees from the leaves.

There is so much context to this, as you clearly suffered for many years under manipulative, coercive and controlling behaviour; I guess only you can answer whether you feel this is something that's being done to flout the boundaries of the order. Understanding that you're probably highly attuned to looking out for these behaviours.

If you feel it is, then it's not unreasonable to say this. You could even lead with, "In some ways this message comes across as though you're including my ex-wife? I just want to make sure that's not the case, because obviously there is a restraining order there communication wise." Although I would try and do this face-to-face if you can, if that's not possible then I would add something else after this comment so it's not seen as the main focus, unless you want it to be.

On the flip side you could decide that this is not what they mean, and this is just a harmless all inclusive message, and leave it.

You know them best, I would trust your gut and go with what you think is best.

Can totally understand your response as when you’ve got a restraining order, and a 10 year one is very indicative of the situation, but it’s too woolly to be a definite breach. It doesn’t appear that grandma is speaking for anyone else, just herself.

Be kinder to yourself. Its not an overreaction its a trigger in response to the abuse you suffered. Its understandable that the message caused you to feel unsettled.

Hope your little one had a good birthday.

Report it? To whom?

The court won’t care unless you’re asking them to regard this as a breach of the order and … then what? What would you want the court to do? You really don’t have the time or the money to return this to court.

No one else will have the slightest interest.

So. What do you want to happen? You could contact the GM and tell her that you regard this message from her as the ex being in breach of the order that forbids i contact but is that reasonable? Can you show that the ex prompted this message and that the GM wouldn’t have sent the birthday wishes if she had not? In all honesty, you can’t.

So, do you want to reply and say that you do not want your child to have any relationship with his maternal family and that they must never contact you again?

Really?

I wouldn’t report it this once, but I would keep hold of the message.

I would also reply very politely to the Grandma saying thank you, but in future you think it would be best if she avoids sending this type of message. I would frame it in terms of you saying that you have been advised by the Police/your solicitor that third party messages like this could be interpreted as a beach of the restraining order as it could be the case that the person behind the order has asked for the message to be sent- you’ve been warned that this is a common way people try to get around orders like this. You just want to make sure that no one gets in trouble unnecessarily so in the future, to avoid any suggestion of a breach, you think it would be best if she just gives a card when she next sees your DD (after the birthday) or at the session where she has contact before beforehand.

If you want some neutral language- try AI!

If she wilfully does it again, then yes I would report it.