Do you think that schools are okay?

[applejane11]

When I was in school, I remember absolutely hating school. I like learning. What I hated was the constant feeling of being in a prison, having no freedom. Having to sit for 7 hours a day and not speak. Having no say at all in most things. Constantly being controlled. I remember every morning, feeling dread when I woke up to go in.

I now actually work in a school in an admin position. Ive worked in lots of different companies. Now im in a school. I hear the teenagers say the same things all the time. They hate it, they feel like they are in prison, that it is awful, that they feel depressed every day, that all their young life is wasted. I also have to say, I definitely see school teachers abuse their power over the students. Not in a way that you could say is definitely abuse, but just in a way where you can see that they are really loving having power and control over the teenagers.

Do you think that schools are okay the way that they are? Teenagers don't have a lot of say in things or a lot of human rights, so it's adults that need to have the conversation about it.

Luckily, I have really lovely teachers in my school. They don't see teachers as having more worth than admin workers. They see every staff member in the school as equal. WE all get along really well.

After reading this thread, I realise how lucky I am to work in the school that I do. Job wise. They really respect admin staff

There have been things written on this thread by teachers, that show such utter disrespect towards admin staff

Some of the gems on this thread were:
'Why would students talk to an admin person?'
'I don't think that a safeguarding lead would have meetings with admin staff'

Absolutely shocking attitudes. I've been included in safeguarding issues and students issues since I started in my school.

Comprehension skills on the floor - not a single part of my post indicates any of the drivel you have spouted.

I hugely, hugely value admin staff, TA, support staff. They are the backbone of the school.

I don't know how you're drawing a conclusion that I don't get along with admin staff. I have very good relationships with the majority of them. But I can think of 2 who would write and react just like you. They are also convinced that schools are the work of the devill and all teachers are nasty and controlling. It makes me wonder why they continue to work in such an establishment.

It is unusual for admin staff to have a weekly meeting with the safeguarding lead, but we may have a different definition of admin staff, and you may be in a pastoral support staff role, in which case it makes perfect sense.

My experience with a teen in English school was pure control. I hated it, fortunately we moved to Scotland during the pandemic so he only had a few months there total.
In the school my teens are in here, there is no uniform and no homework. There are no detentions. My kids are happy at school. Sure the odd teacher is mean but mostly they are happy because they don’t feel constantly punished and controlled just for existing.

Read about the behaviour issues in the Scottish system....

I hated school. My kids all hated school.
The put downs, the broken promises..
There were a handful of teachers (Mine & the kids) who were marvellous, & I remember them fondly. The rest can get in the bin.

I teach in a secondary school. All schools are different of course, but I can't say the school I work in, or my previous schools, are as you describe.

At our school, students absolutely have time to chat to each other - if you come in before school starts you will our children chatting/laughing/reading/playing games - a group of our Y10s usually have an excitable game of uno going on. It's the same at break and lunch. Students chat as they walk between lessons.

In lessons we expect silence when the teacher or another student is speaking. I also ask for silence during independent work so that everyone can concentrate and I can circulate to help and assess. If I am doing a practical it will be more noisy as they need to talk.

We offer lots of extra opportunities for the students at our school and relationships between staff and students are very positive.

Yes, we also have rules and sanctions to allow the school to be calm and happy but I definitely isn't like prison!

I teach in a secondary school. All schools are different of course, but I can't say the school I work in, or my previous schools, are as you describe.

At our school, students absolutely have time to chat to each other - if you come in before school starts you will our children chatting/laughing/reading/playing games - a group of our Y10s usually have an excitable game of uno going on. It's the same at break and lunch. Students chat as they walk between lessons.

In lessons we expect silence when the teacher or another student is speaking. I also ask for silence during independent work so that everyone can concentrate and I can circulate to help and assess. If I am doing a practical it will be more noisy as they need to talk.

We offer lots of extra opportunities for the students at our school and relationships between staff and students are very positive.

Yes, we also have rules and sanctions to allow the school to be calm and happy but I definitely isn't like prison!

The purpose of a school is to teach. Children need to be in class to learn. The class needs to be quiet so the teacher can he heard by everyone.

As a teacher I insist on quiet at certain times. Children need to quiet to be able to focus. I allow quiet talking at other times and obviously free time involves loud talking.

I minimise children going to the toilet as it means they’re missing learning. It’s my job to help them learn and they won’t learn if they’re chatting in bathroom. Sometimes I make them wait for a few minutes while I explain a task.

Teachers may not be better people than admin staff, but they are very much better at managing groups of 30 teenagers for 50 minutes or an hour, much better at delivering lessons, and - you will not like this, @applejane11 - much more qualified to comment on doing so, because it’s how they spend their days.

Various posters have suggested you ask to spend some time out of the office to get into classrooms so you can observe a few lessons, so you get a real sense of how it is. You never respond to this point, @applejane11. Why is that?

You sound a bit crazy.

Is it actually that you perceive yourself as ‘only’ admin staff, because you’re sure protesting too much about it.

Hello OP-I think you are getting lots of unfair comments, and no sensible conversation. I work in a high school also, in pastoral care. It’s a very large school, and there are certain issues that come up a lot, like toilets and needing permission. Not everyone asking to go to the toilet is going there to vape/cause trouble/chat to mates/bunk/use phone….but there is the assumption (it appears)that they are! Also students out of lesson in corridors can be a safeguarding concern. So rules at my school are they can’t go in first quarter or last quarter of lesson or at teachers discretion or if have a medical pass. So you have 1500 plus students and only 2 half hour breaks in the day and estimated 40 toilets , and they need to eat/drink have a bit of social time,burn off energy, calm down! No wonder there are issues with toilets! If you have a bottle of water in this heat then you will likely need the loo half hour later, in lesson. It’s an impossible situation, so smaller schools maybe or longer day , and longer break, I don’t know the answer.
Also re admin staff, they are so important to students and school, and often as teachers are teaching, they are the ones students will talk to about safeguarding issues especially in secondary schools. They can get to know the late comers, misbehavers,ones,who need medical all the time ,really well.
Also (sorry long post) some teachers at my school, and other members of staff are great, kind, and loved by the students. Some are awful, really enjoy the power, have a sense of superiority -and that is showing up on this thread!

Your opening post was disrespectful with a shocking attitude towards teachers (who you accused of abusing their powers) and schools generally. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about your own role, and are using that to unfairly attack teachers. I’d work on your self esteem rather than focus on the bitterness you seem to have towards teachers.

I wonder if they know you are stabbing them in the back when they aren’t around?

My experience too. Add into the mix severe/persistent bullying too!

But yes, my recollection is that so many teachers hated the pupils, hated their jobs, etc., and it really came across to the pupils. So many would do their utmost to "Put down" their pupils, set trick questions to make them look stupid, etc.

That was in the late 70s/early 80s. I'd hoped/assumed that things would have got better over time, but my son's experiences were very similar in the 2010 decade, and from lots of posts on here, it seems not much has changed sadly!

I don't even know what schools are for anymore. The comp system of "one size fits all" clearly doesn't work for huge numbers of kids. The subjects/content taught has barely changed in decades and is no longer fit for the current/future employment needs. There's a huge mis-match between what kids need to know for their future/the country's needs, and what they're being taught (often badly).

I recently saw a few paying school coach unload (I have the smallest house in an upmarket village) and the kids were all in very skimpy shorts and tops because it was hot.

By contrast, the local state school had also been allowed summer uniform: black long trousers or skirts, black polo shirts, black leather shoes. They were roasting! To me, the message was clear, the working class kids had to be covered and chaste. What’s good for the rich isn’t for the rest of us.

I was a teacher for a decade in mainstream secondary schools. My children go to a small, alternative school. If I had a choice (as I now do, thankfully) I'd never send them to mainstream school. Every school I've worked in, even the brilliant ones with outstanding Ofsted reports and generally functional systems, has felt institutional and, at least in some ways, unkind. To both staff and students. We know that British schools underperform compared to those in other countries. We know that British children are amongst the least happy in the developed world. These facts are well-researched and well-documented. This should be enough to show us that our education system need overhauling. For example, kids in happier nations are subject to far less testing and they have more avenues to pursue education that suits their interests (for example with technical schools and a range of other approaches, state funded, in the Netherlands). Teachers in better-performing systems have more planning time, more autonomy and less oversight. These are just some ways in which we could improve our education system, but there are many others - smaller class sizes, not beginning formal education so young, more time with one or two members of staff so children can form attachments to their teachers, etc.

Although I agree with you, the comprehensive system did offer a broader curriculum to suit different learning.

The academy (privatised) system is the one size fits all version.

The curriculum has narrowed. Secondary schools are chasing a number which is basically a bucket which is filled quicker by core subjects and facilitating subjects such as STEM, English and languages.

Subjects such as music, media, drama, art, design, fashion, media, sport and so on, don’t fill the buckets so are cut or severely underfunded.

Schools generally still like those subjects because they look good in brochures but in truth they aren’t valued.

Children, parents and autonomous teachers are viewed as the problem between the head keeping their £250,000 pa or not. This is why they have become punitive exam factories with fanatical discipline regimes.

I hope your safeguarding investigations are not edited as you have edited quoted responses on here to suit your (paranoid) narrative.
What i actually said was
i cant see a safeguarding lead discussing safeguarding cases with admin staff on a regular basis
This was before you revealed that you dont actually work in a state school (where pastoral would usually deal with this not admin) and i dont know what overlap of roles they have in private schools so i stopped querying it.

I work in a state school in a deprived area. They wore PE kit in the heatwave: shorts and t shirt. Overwhelmingly this was the case across the country. The vast majority of schools relaxed uniform - that’s why the outliers who didn’t hit the headlines.

I’m pretty sure that 12-year old me was a bit of a psycho. But that was over 40 years ago. Luckily all those teachers who made my life such a misery are long gone.

PE kit every day I say, then they can never get detention for not having it.

Again toy are projecting massively. And Ilit seems your are the one who looks down on teachers and is soooo spiteful and jaded. I guess you just come across so immature (unlike the admin staff that I have worked with along the years), that is indeed hard to see that YOU work in any setting, not mentol school. If this is not a windup by a teenager, again please think of doing the pgce and becoming a teacher so you can show us the way.

Schools are not ok.
But that is because they are expected to do much with too little and far too many people expect schools to do things that are far beyond the remit of what schools should be doing.