Do you think that schools are okay?

[applejane11]

When I was in school, I remember absolutely hating school. I like learning. What I hated was the constant feeling of being in a prison, having no freedom. Having to sit for 7 hours a day and not speak. Having no say at all in most things. Constantly being controlled. I remember every morning, feeling dread when I woke up to go in.

I now actually work in a school in an admin position. Ive worked in lots of different companies. Now im in a school. I hear the teenagers say the same things all the time. They hate it, they feel like they are in prison, that it is awful, that they feel depressed every day, that all their young life is wasted. I also have to say, I definitely see school teachers abuse their power over the students. Not in a way that you could say is definitely abuse, but just in a way where you can see that they are really loving having power and control over the teenagers.

Do you think that schools are okay the way that they are? Teenagers don't have a lot of say in things or a lot of human rights, so it's adults that need to have the conversation about it.

I don't think schools are okay, which is why I left teaching and why I home educated my own DC.

What could? The world's changing so fast.

I'm not following your reasoning. If teens were allowed to talk freely whenever they liked, as you suggested in an earlier post, wouldn't the level of disruption be even higher?

Just as well you're not a teacher then. They have less choice about bathroom use than their pupils.

Posts like this are hard to read. I've been a Secondary School teacher in Ireland for 13 years now. I'm currently on maternity leave and although I'm loving my time with my baby, I miss my job a lot. I worked really hard as have my colleagues. I've taught the students who get the material straight away, supported the student who needed extra time, sat back after class for the child whose family member died or was being bullied, or simply didnt know why they were crying but needed help. All matter to me.

Your comment about a girl on her period struck too. Three years ago when I was heavilly pregnant, I ran to the head office to grab pads and a jumper because one of my students had gotten caught unaware. My colleagues have done similar. In addition to this; my colleagues train and support after school clubs long after the bell has rang. We teach on average two subjects but really we are now managing our students on so many different levels emotionally and academically.

This isn't a post about how great teachers are but just a reminder that just because your experiences were/are poor, does not mean all teachers and schools are too. I have to say in all of your points, none of them are relevant or happening in schools I taught and teach in and says more about the individual culture rather than teaching as a whole.

It's a profession I am proud and passionate about. Are we perfect? No, but there are more good teachers out there than bad like most careers. Bashing a whole system is daft and comparing schools long ago to now is riddiculous. I entered into this career knowing I'd never be rich but thankfully I feel as motivated and happy in my career and invested in my students since day one 13 years ago.

Absolutely unhinged to think like that. You sound like a psychopath.

For me I think I really struggled with how big and impersonal secondary was. I didn't like having so many different teachers. I didn't like the busy environment. I never felt like there was any pastoral care, there was drug dealing on my school bus and I remember talking about it with someone as an adult and the other person being horrified that I didn't tell anyone at school. It genuinely didn't occur to me to tell someone at school.

There were things that would have made it better like more of my peers being kinder, teachers being more proactive about bullying behaviour and teachers having more power to deal with disruptive pupils in the classroom. By that I mean actual disruption not putting people in isolation for a glance at the clock or an untucked shirt.

That said I think I'd have still struggled for the above reasons.

But how many of these things have you actually witnessed?

How many lessons have you been in?

You cannot make these generalisations on what a teenager said.

E.g. a student accused me of being racist years ago and said I was sending him to the isolation room just because he was black. I sent him to the isolation room because he threw something at another student and swore at him. Another told his parents that I'd sworn at him in the lesson so his parents made a complaint. The word I actually used is insolent as the child was constantly being rude but never taking responsibility for his poor behaviour. Obviously not a swear word.

Like I said, the list of what teenagers say vs what actually happened is endless so you need to base your accusations on evidence you've witnessed in person, not what a teenager told you.

You are clearly projecting and creating hyperbole. It’s not uncommon for the school bursar to think they know more than the teachers about what goes on in the classrooms and why. Try being the actual teacher for 6 months and you’ll have a completely different viewpoint on many of the issues you’ve raised.

This.

OP is one of those who believes the student and never investigates further. We've all worked with people like it who make the job of teaching harder.

The disruptive students and their excusing parents made it like this for everyone.

DC are in an indie and it’s much more collaborative, although rules are still expected to be followed. The difference is they are not diffusing disruptive students for half the lesson time.

It’s horrendous that this is not the case across the board.

I do work in a school, and I have worked in other schools.

The amount of rude, obnoxious people on here - and a lot of them have been teachers.

Listening to student issues in the school that I'm in, is actually the opposite of 'projecting'.

'Never investigates further'. Again an assumption without asking. A key part of safeguarding; is investigating what the student says. We do that in several different ways in my school.

How is it that you feel being stuck in school is not good training for being stuck at work? We are all wage slaves- unless we happen to be independently wealthy, the amount of freedom we experience in our lives is quite modest.
As for having a group of people with power over you- is this not excellent training for real life? As an adult will you not experience abuse of power from your boss, your landlord, companies which supply you with power and services?
School is actually a more benevolent form of control than most we experience in adult life.

Few things at play. One is the curriculum isn’t designed for everyone and probably can’t be in reality but the way it is now definitely isn’t tailored for non academic kids or many SEN kids. Lots of Gove’s reforms need altering, I definitely don’t agree with all students being forced to select either history or geography at GCSE for example when lots of kids detest both as is their right.

On the flip side, teens will be teens and many just like to rebel and be a bit difficult. Perhaps see school as a waste of time or find it annoying and would rather be home on TikTok. That’s also kind of normal behaviour.

I think you are massively projecting your own hatred of teachers onto kids, Suella Braverman.

What human tights are breached in schools? Because the ones oyu mentioned are not human riughts. If everyone spoke when they wanted, there would be no point in teaching and learning. n what ways are kids 'constantly controlled'? School uniform is on school leaders, not teachers. Teachers also get shouted at and sworn at and worse by some students. Sure, there are idiots in all profession. I think you should maybe become a teacher yourself and show us all how it's done, hun!

It’s really not. You are taking what the students are saying, adding your version of some of your school experiences from decades ago, and projecting your own personal distaste for school onto others. I worked with many school admin people like you and they were a pain in the butt most of the time. Think they know exactly what goes on in the classrooms just because they sit in a room in the same building - but don’t teach and aren’t present in the classrooms. They also do a lot of damage to student and staff morale. The best thing for you to do is train to teach and do a year. You’ll soon change your mind when you’ve been trying to present a slide deck and been interrupted for the forth time by the same kid without manners. Then the parents come in to complain that you’ve said the kid can’t talk over you and a different set of parents come in to complain that their kid is complaining they can’t hear the lesson because of the rude interrupting kid. Until you’ve walked in someone’s shoes and all that. Everyone thinks they know better than teachers. It’s wild. And arrogant.

Kids are t in school for 7 hours a day.

they have lessons for about 5

How do you think the world of work is? Done people work 12 hour days

Nail on the head.

A-level would be a tremendous shock after such a system!

We already saw that with the two year groups who didn't sit GCSEs in 2020 and 2021.

I am the head of a department in a deprived secondary school. I struggle to believe you actually work in a school to be honest - a lot of what you’re saying is nonsense.

That said - no I don’t believe schools are perfect but yes, for the majority of pupils they work well. I believe the curriculum is outdated, and rapidly needs updating across the board. I believe there should be a review of school opening and closing times. I believe that uniforms should be massively relaxed or completely abolished - outdated although I see certain benefits. I believe SEND support is still woefully inadequate in most schools and that there needs to be an urgent reform with greater support and training to all teachers.

The toilet issue I just find nonsense to be honest. Nearly all schools have a no toilet in lesson policy at secondary schools but have allowances. In our school, for example, children (or teenagers as you say) are encouraged to used the bathroom at break. If they ask in lesson, they are however allowed to go and provided with a toilet pass if it is appropriate at that time (for example no other child is out at the toilet). No, we cannot just let children go to the toilet whenever they want. That is a safeguarding risk. During lesson most teachers are teaching, there is no one there to supervise or support. Say every teacher in my school let two children to the bathroom at once, that’s nearly 100 teenagers out of lesson, unsupervised . We have had fights organised in bathrooms, vaping. It has to be managed. And also the VAST majority of careers also encourage basic bladder control. Can a GP walk out half way through an appointment for the bathroom? No they wait until they are finished. Would a cashier stop scanning your shopping to go to the bathroom. No they would wait until they were finished. Would a 911 call handler say ‘hang on a minute I’ll get an ambulance to you when I’ve been to the toilet?’ No they would go at assigned times. Would you be happy if your child’s teacher left 30 kids on their own to go to the bathroom? No. They wait until break.

In schools where there is zero flexibility with the toilet policy I do think that needs to be reassessed. There should never ever be a blanket ban on toilet use but it still has to be managed which will always be asking children to wait.

'struggle to believe that I work in a school'.

I don't care in the slightest. I'm seeing a theme here where the teachers and 'heads of depts' don't believe that I work in a school. It's used as an attempt to look down on me. Often an insult about how little administration workers know, is also included in the post

Some of you have huge egos.

Teachers are not BETTER than admin workers. I hope all the admin workers leave your schools, then you'll see how much we actually do