Is this how undertakers behave these days?

[Londonmummy66]

Is this normal for an undertaker? My father had a funeral plan and pretty much everything was covered (or so I thought). SO I was somewhat surprised to get a chasing letter from Co op Funeral Services for non payment of fees. On investigation the local office told me that there were £140 of additional items my father had requested that weren't included in the plan and a fee of £50 for the crematorium switching on the electric organ so my husband could provide a bit of "till ready" background music as the minister was late due to bad traffic. I wasn't sent an invoice for any of this (still not had one....)

I explained that my father's estate has no liquid assets so I can't get cash from that until probate and that the joint bank account passed to my mother who has no capacity. I have an EPA for her following my father's death but that is still with the Public Guardian's Office for activation - taken them 3 months and counting. The banking arm of the Coop won't let me access funds for this without the activation code despite having a copy of the EPA - and I probably shouldn't pay the funeral expenses from my mother's account anyway as they are correctly estate expenses.

Co op funeral care said that none of this is their problem (including not having actually sent me an invoice) and that they are going to send debt collectors after me - is this how funeral directors usually act nowadays? My father took out an insurance plan with the Coop to avoid this sort of issue.

I was appointed as the alternate for my mother on my father's death but despite the PoA being sent to the Public Guardian's office in the middle of May they have yet to issue an activation code despite being chased. Its really unacceptable that they can delay this long when times are difficult enough without financial stress on top.

Londonmummy66. Our bill has now been settled in full via Nat West Bank - the Bereavement section. They did this as ordered by our Solicitor. Probate hasn’t been done but they are allowed to do it for funeral bills. What with having to sort Care costs for a loved one and then being chased for money again when they pass, it seems every one wants money. I do hope you get some help and get the dreaded Coop off of your back. All that fuss for them getting their money and now we’ve been told our Mother can’t get cremated until 4 September! I hate that Coop funeral advert now!

Agree. It took nearly 3 years when my DM died.

I would never use the Co-op again for a funeral. It was a family ‘tradition’ as I know most if not all my Scottish relatives used them (the wake would then be in the Co-op halls after. However after my Mum died and I was struggling to sort everything, at the appointment to finalise the funeral arrangements, the person dealing with us took three, yes three, calls on her mobile. I’m discussing burying my mum and she’s answering a call regarding a failed MOT and her kid going on a sleepover. I was just too traumatised to even say anything.

Not like their add at all!

I’m currently dealing with my Dad’s estate, slightly different as he survived my lovely mum (by 30 years☹️).

Why do you need probate if there is a surviving spouse, assuming everything passed to her?

sending love, it’s ghastly x

If it is an EPA as you mention and not an LPA then you will not get a code from them - EPAs cannot be used online like new LPAs can.

Have you called the OPG to stress the urgency of the application? They’re usually very rapid with updating an EPA/LPA upon death (2-3 weeks) so it’s concerning it’s taking so long. If they have lost it they need to provide you with an ‘office copy’

Probate ‘proves’ the Will - I.e. confirms it is valid. A lot of institutions require probate regardless of beneficiary due to the amounts involved. Most banks will only pay out up to £10-£20k before wanting a grant of probate as it covers their back that the Will they have been shown is legit

No, she doesn't. It has to come out of the estate.

THey also refuse to speak to their banking colleagues...
Surely you realise that it’s an entirely separate business - as are the supermarkets!🤦🏽‍♀️

Try contacting Radio 4’s ‘You & Yours’ and/or other consumer programmes. This is just the sort of Catch 22/injustice they’d be interested in. I think there’s a good consumer section in The Times, too.
Timing would be good considering the current Co-op TV ad campaign

Because not everything is a joint asset.

people might not realise , they are all called Co op. If you don’t have many dealings with them how would you know. ?

Seriously? People could really think that they can apply for a mortgage where they buy their bread and milk ? Or buy bread and milk in an undertakers?

I agree. They will need to prove they presented these costs clearly to you before the funeral took place and that you agreed to pay them. If they have nothing in writing they'll have a hard time taking you to court for payment.

Just came on to update that I have had a voicemail message from the CEO's office to apologise and say they will cancel the invoice. Assuming they follow through (as I don't have it in writing) then I think that is fair enough.

This exact thing happened to us and it turned out that the costs had already been paid in full after I'd chased the Executor (firm.of solicitors) twice and they said the bill had been paid already, whether that was by the bank or the Executor I do not know but they sent a strongly worded letter to the Co-Op funeral directors amd told them to stop sending g threatening letters, including threats of debt collectors!

Im so sorry for your loss and the fact you're going through this, especially since your Dad hoped by having his affairs in order this would be avoided

That’s good news. Do you have a spare phone you can record the voice note on? If you’re on iPhone you can do a screen recording with sound.

Whoever executed your father's estate should have arranged for any additional funeral expenses to be paid prior to the joint account transferring to a sole account, which should not have been transferred until probate was achieved in any case. As a pp atated, the bank would have paid out from existing funds.

Notwithstanding lack of invoices, have the correct notice periods been followed for creditors to come forward? Notice of death published in The Gazette etc? If the correct procedure has not been followed, the executor(s) will be liable for the debt.

I suggest sending messages to all their SM accounts firms do not like negative comments and often promise to look into things. Send emails to the highest people on their website and tell them you are contacting Rip off Britain programme. They will not like it at all and with luck will settle the situation.

This is totally correct. The funeral is the 1st debt on an estate and can be paid from the funds of the decreased before probate. I worked in this years ago and paid numerous funeral bills sometimes received from solicitors. Is a solicitor doing the probate as they could write to the bank and ask them to pay it. Not sure what their reason is to refuse it as I didn't think they could do that. Most banks have a department dealing with deceased accounts. I would put in a written complaint to both and demand an invoice. Maybe if a solicitor is involved they could write on your behalf but appreciate this would be an additional expense on their fee.

So pleased they have cancelled the invoice

i I was going to question whether they actually have a case, as your father choose the undertakers and paid, the contract was with him not you.

sorry for your lose and hope probate and EPA is sorted soon for you

Very bad idea for OP to take cash out of her Mum’s bank account using her card. The bank already know her Mum has lost capacity and there is currently no LPA or deputyship in place, so this would be immediately flagged as fraud. OP could end up with criminal charges.

Joint accounts are never part of the estate of the deceased so never under the control of the executor. They automatically become the sole property of the other joint owner upon the death of the first and the bank will automatically transfer the account into the sole name of the survivor on production of the death certificate. Same applies to property held as joint tenants.

Oh thank you - I will get DD to do this for me (much more techie than I am).