To wonder where the normal people are?

[wherearemypeople]

I went to a broadly leftwing but not political event the other day. At one point an anti racist man shouted out "never mourn a Tory", which struck me as pretty pro-violence in the month that Ann Widdecombe was murdered. Then a trans performance poet had trans flag painted bricks to remind people of the stonewall riots and said that sometimes people needed more persuasion, and mentioned Wes Streetings constituency office being damaged.

I used to be solidly left wing but would never condone violence. I'm just wondering where normal people are who are neither like the ones just mentioned or Tommy Robinson fans.

Name changed just in case the woman who runs the event comes on here.

I agree with you, I’m quite centrist I suppose - some right and some left wing views, but everything is so extreme now. There seems to be very little place for moderate political views any more. I had attributed a large part of it to social media and the black and white nature of how issues are presented when in reality there are shades of grey to almost everything.

I agree with you and I aren't sure of my political leanings anymore. I feel fairly centre in between left and right. And I aren't a racist or fascist. My point is, I can see key points on both sides. I guess a lot of people don't like fence sitters, some have the stance of if you're not completely with us then you're against us which I find absolutely ridiculous and lacks critical thinking.

But to me, regardless of your political leaning, I think it's absolutely abhorrent to rejoice on someone's death. The things said about an Ann Widdecombe, the basis was she was an old lady. She had views that I don't necessarily agree with but she never physically hurt anyone. People are allowed to have their views!

Agree as well. I live in such a politically divided area. People are either painting St George’s flags on roundabouts or flying the Palestine flag. I find both groups to be aggressive, judgmental and prejudice. It’s so hard to meet normal people who care about the issues that affect people day to day.

Anyone remember Ricky Jones the Labour councillor who called for the Southport protesters to have their throats cut. Remember what happened to him? Nothing.

That's what I was meaning about Angela Rayner (not saying SHE has said anything as bad as this, though, just to be clear) - some people just are not the required calibre to be politicians. They're rabble-rousers, irresponsible, hot-headed and crude in their thoughts and words - and such people are frankly dangerous.

We need better.

Horrible though it is to witness, I'm interested in an analytical way about the big change in our political life in the UK. These are the suggestions other people have made to try to explain the general lowering of the tone:

• poorer educational standards over the last 40 years
• social media, social media and social media (surely a major culprit) making everyone cruder, ruder and bolder
• the box-ticking approach to choosing MPs, rather than pure merit

I'm old and I was at university in the early 80s. I definitely remember a change in the air at that time. I was in a pretty militant left-wing English Dept at at redbrick - by that, I mean that at least 2 of the lecturers boasted about chucking kerb stones at the police on a march in the city centre.

We were in a seminar (about 8 people) with a trendy lecturer, discussing a piece of literature. A student made a comment which made her say 'I sincerely hope youi're not advocating the death penalty!'

Actually, he wasn't, by any means! She had really overthought his comment. But I was really unnerved by the way she glared at him (and you could see her 'marking his card' for the future!). I was too shocked to say anything at the time, but I thought about it afterwards and (although I've always been anti-death penalty, FWIW), I thought - well, it's a valid opinion - he's allowed to support the death penalty - it's not illegal to have that opinion!!!

Looking back it seemed like a change in the intellectual climate - you HAD to have the 'right' (that is, the left) views if you were to be taken seriously and certainly to get anywhere in the academic world!!

It's social media, and honestly, it's Americans.

Sorry, I know there are plenty of nice, reasonable, normal Americans, but I don't think it can be denied that they have always been more dramatic than us. And since there are so many of them, they completely dominate social media, and left wing spaces online, riling everyone up with their dramatised ways and opinions.

Everyone, the left and the right, have completely lost their minds.

So tired of these posts

You’ll always meet the extremes at those things, normal people usually avoid

I guess I need to find other things to go to.

Can you say why?

That's not a very helpful comment as it stands.

I think it's partly because the US has pretty much crushed and downgraded its public service broadcaster, and the population gets its news from biased and interested sources such as Fox News. Some of these news channels are owned by people not unlike Donald Trump!

And social media, yes - definitely.

I think it's made the US population more dumb, to be honest, and I think things may have reached a tipping point. Trump has changed America in the way a bad teacher ruins a class - he's given the green light to much behaviour which wouldn't have happened (or at least been tolerated) 15 years ago.

We need to learn from what's happened there.

It’s a fundamental mistake to call these people by political labels.
They are mentally unstable people, who are latching into politics.

Sane left wingers need to detach from the unstable voices swamping them.

look what has happened to the Pride movement: the mentally unstable latched onto a sane group, and have in effect destroyed its credibility.

we have highly vocal mentally unstable people destabilising our country in many ways.

giving a voice to anyone and everyone means the lunatics take over the asylum.

What do you find 'tiring'?

To be fair, the rise of the extreme left cannot be attributed to this.

It was always thus. Nye Bevan referred to the Tories as vermin 80 years ago. You’re referencing people right at the outer edges of politics @wherearemypeople. They’re the left wing equivalent of Tommy Robinson.

I’m trying to be fair-handed here but it does seem hard not to conclude that these OTT insults do tend to come from the Left.

Is that fair? Does anyone have examples of Tories using this kind of language towards Labour supporters? I mean - in public discourse, not in the pub in a private conversation.

From the other direction

Pompous, trite, high-sounding, cautiously guarded… he might as well have a corn cob up his arse. (

Neil Kinnock is a windbag whose incoherent speeches spring from an incoherent mind.

A pathological confidence-trickster.

You’ll find many examples of the ancient art of political insult here. The quality of wit has declined though. https://stephenliddell.co.uk/2020/06/10/british-political-insults/

The extremists from both sides are the loudest and least tolerant. My politics are left of center but I find it easier to discuss politics with moderate right wingers because so many on the left seem to have lost their minds.

The left believes I'm a hateful bigot/fascist because I don't believe humans can change sex. I don't even know any out and proud Restore/Reform supporters but I do understand how they are made.

Unfortunately the noisy ones are reshaping politics to polarise us even more. Normies need to unite to restore some sanity.

Hiding from the political lunacy. In real life. At the library or work. Avoiding the angry and hoping for the best.

I have no problem with people using insults in general - I might find them somewhat distasteful, it's the level of celebration of death and threats of violence (very thinly veiled) that bother me.

@BIossomtoes

😄. Thanks - but I’d say those are very mild compared to vermin and scum!

Almost witty and much more articulate.

Yes - that’s the sure sign of a wrong’un - the sort of person who would have signed up to be a concentration camp guard or a medieval torturer. They walk among us.

I think this as well.

I think it's social media, their dire educational systems, lack of media control and everything having been made poltical. As you say in person lovely people.

On-line they think the default is US culture and it's assumed it applied here as we have the same language and for some reason many of todays poltican in uk seem to go along with this.

I was horrified at number on left in US who were fine with the Charlie Kirk shooting - that bad for both sides and anyone who puts forward a public opinion someone could take offense to.

I'm center left - and increasingly feel there's no-one to vote for.

I also think Anglea Raynor is a poor example of a politician - you should be able to disagree and be civil not resort to insults.

I don’t think calling someone an incoherent windbag is much better and a pathological confidence trickster certainly isn’t. Not much wit involved either. Surely the principle is whether insult is acceptable or not?

Completely agree.