to think that some MNers are just a tweensy bit biased when it comes to elective CS?

[youcannotbeserious]

Why is it, when anyone ever posts that they want an elective CS / considering going private, LOTS of MNers start going on about the risks (I appreciate that they exist and, to be fair, they are explained in detail by the consultant and you have to sign a waiver so you are fully aware of them) and needing to be in an NHS hospital 'just in case' and you wouldn't want to be in one of those pesky private hospitals, but the same never gets said for home births which, as far as I can see, must have a reasonably equal risk of needing to go to transfer to a hospital?

Why is it that Elec. CSs are so frowned upon?

I'm genuinely curious - I had to defend my 'birth plan' several times here on MN - and I don't honestly see why it's so emotive... Should I run for it now?

hi lou,

one obvious difference when you pay for it- you get the consultant not the junior trainee.

Also, i don't think that many people are accusing the NHS of being squalid: however, MRSA will be much more common in NHS wards as there are far more immobile, ill people in an NHS hospital than in a private one. Even if you disregard the reports of inadequate cleaning, i don't think you can argue with that.

i've had to use the nhs hospitals 3 times while i've lived in Lomdon. each hospital was in a different area ...each time was horrible and absolutely disgusting. b

We could go on until the cows come home about our different experiences.

I have been an in-patient with the NHS about 6 times in my life.

Each time I have been perfectly satisfied with the experience.

I think maybe sometimes people expect too much, they expect a stay in hospital to be like a stay in a hotel. Of course some people have had bad experiences but overall I think it is a good service and one we should be grateful for.

"Luicle, only biscuits no champagne? You would be extremely lucky to get an actual consultant who does private work on the nhs unless you were high risk."

I didn't want champagne! I wanted sugar and butter!

As for the consultant, I didn't need one. There is no need for anyone to see one unless they have concerns about how their pregnancy is being managed or they are high risk in some way, surely. However, most consultants in most disciplines work for both the NHS and the private sector.

Strep tests are given as standard in the NHS system, I believe. I know several people who have benefited from them on the NHS.

And I have been an in-patient on the NHS many times for things like asthma or small operations. My care has never ever been less than good in many different hospitals over a period of about thirty years. My sister, who needed a serious operation at 11, had the best care I can possibly imagine on the NHS. They saved her life.

I don't have a problem with people choosing to go private if they want to - it's their money! But I do have a problem with people assuming that all NHS care is sub-standard. It isn't.

to be quite honest i've had three inlaws who have had elective c sections on the nhs and that's always been their reasoning. granted my mil gave birth 17 yrs ago and the other two inlaws are consultants themselves.

YCBS - if the choice was DH definitely present for the birth or the possibility of him being a flight away then I would have opted for an elective section even for my first.

It would have been very stressful for both of you if you had gone into labour and he had to organise flights to get back to you.

youcannotbeserious I can say this as a theatre nurse, not as a mother or patient, that lifting heavy weights/driving etc are all very stupid things to be doing post c-section- elective or emergency. After 3 days the internal muscles/fascia etc are being held together by a nylon thread. If this splits due to pressure i.e. from lifting, it can result in a small hole (sometimes a big hole) which doesn't heal. In turn tissues can end up protruding through the hole long after the operation and if it isn't dealt with can cause necrosis of that tissue. (A hernia is its name btw). This is not always obvious as the skin may have healed perfectly. YOU CANNOT BE HEALED OR FIT AFTER 3 DAYS. TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!
PS I also was up showered and dressed and baby same without help 12hrs post op, which is fine. What you don't realise is that you lose blood in theatre and drop HB. This can make you tired and puts even more strain on the op site. It also mostly doesn't create symptoms until a couple of days later.

Oh and to the 'personal choice' brigade. If you want it done in a private hospital crack on.
NHS private service is altogether different though. The midwives are taken away from emergency cases like mine becausse someone is paying for their time. Had I been allocated the experienced midwife who was attending a private case, I may not have needed a c-section. She would have respected my decision to not be continually monitored due to the last section, so I could do OFP in labour. Instead I had a MW who had been qualified 1yr, had to go by the book as she hadn't got enough experience to use clinical judgement.
My baby was vertex/sideways at the beginning of labour and turned OP after I had started being monitored

Thankls Tori - Believe me, I did take things easily. I'm just saying that after 3 days, I did feel fine.

As for the NHS Private service, I'm afraid that without it, I don't think there would be too much of an NHS service at all.

FWIW, I had planned to go to the private wing at St. Thomas', and it was made extremely clear that any emergency would take prescedence over a planned CS and 1 operating theatre was always maintained in case of an emergency.

I?ve read a bit of this thread and would like to add my views since I had an elective CS. I chose to have private consultant led obstetric care right from the start and had my baby at the well known private women?s and children hospital.

I would like to consider a few points: it is of course possible to have a brilliant experience on the NHS for care and delivery and many of you have experienced this, but was it more a question of luck or was it the norm that everyone experienced?

For example, did you know at the beginning of your care that you would have a consultant obstetrician and a consultant anaesthetist for the delivery? Was all the care delivered by the same consultant? Could you a have a scan when ever you needed reassurance, using state of the art equipment, done by some of the top people? Once in hospital was there an expectation of an own room with en-suite facilities, very supportive nursing, no restrictions on visiting hours, daily visit by a consultant paediatrician to check on the baby? Did the consultant (obs and anaes) to visit on a daily basis to examine how you were doing? The list could go on?

If all this is standard maternity care on the NHS and not a lucky aberration, I would say what a fantastic system.

(I felt really well after 5 days of rest at the hospital, aided by the wonderful room service).

saskia, not every woman needs or requires a consultant obs, anesthatist or paed at her birth. a normal vaginal birth does not require all of those things.

and it would be interesting to see how many women had interventions or c.s because they had epidurals and obstetricians attend their birth as a matter of course

i have to strongly agree with Twinkle.

The portland post natal TLC was perfect. I left after 5 days feeling refreshed, relaxed, rested and full of confidence. The care was just wonderful....

As opposed to the nhs midwife who, though perfectly pleasant, was more interested in ticking boxes than actually seeing if i could cope / was ok. And who i saw once for 15 minutes....

i have had 2 vaginal births and 3 c sections for medical reasons which inc s.p.d i would rather have vaginal delivery any day but that isnt always the best thing yet you are made to feel a faliure as a mother for not delivering urself

am not anti obstetrician

i am pro normal birth

i am simply giving my opinion and another perspective

childbirth is a deeply complex issue, but i agree a lot of problems could be solved by more money going into the system.

and not everyone lives in London and has access to the portland or st john and elizabeths, nor can they afford an independent midwife

so ensuring the NHS system is one that can support mothers is important.

i had consultant led care for my last birth, i asked him if he would be present at the birth, his response was. 'if i;m there something has gone wrong, you don;t want me there. '

i had a normal vaginal birth with a MW and was up and about and happy to be home a few hours later

i am not anti anything, i am just seeing it from a different side. and in this debate, that is a perfectly valid response , i don;t need or want to start another thread as i am not anti obstetrician.

I must say, one thing I was a bit shocked about is that private healthcare for childbirth isn't much available outside of London. I'm only just outside (travelling in for appts was do-able) but honestly thought I'd just pitch up to my local BMI hospital which is where I go for everything else.

I was quite shocked that, even a hour out of London, there were no facilities.

When I started this thread, it was NOT to know VB - in any capacity - but to raise the fact that for some women, CS is the right way to go and that shouldn't be seen as a problem.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and my point was that CS can be a wonderful option and isn't the big scary failure that is sometimes presented.

I'd also add that I had a doula who presented all options for childbirth in a non judgemental way and (regardless of her personal opinions) supported my very organised, scheduled delivery. I am sure that Lulumama does the same in her work as a doula.

yep, i have supported women having elective sections... i have advised women how to go about getting the care they want, be it an elective, a waterbirth, VBAC, homebirth, whatever...

if i had a woman choosing freebirthing, i would not support her as it is something i am totally opposed to and there are legal issues.

if i felt strongly i could not offer unequivocal support, i could not be that woman's doula.

feeling strongly pro normal birth is my personal thing. i hope i have not come across as judgemental in anyway on this thread. if i have, i apologise unreservedly

my main issue with electives is sometimes they are chosen out of fear, without the fear being addressed, and sometimes without understanding of the risks.

ype, all good comments. I do agree with the sentiment of the original post- most people when told i had a CS have said 'poor you'. I could understand it if it were only those who knew i was going for a VB, but it was pretty much everyone. My response has been that it was the only part of my labour that went well.

I do agree, Lulumama, that elec. CS are perhaps sometimes chosen out of fear, but other times, they are chosen because they are right for the woman...

I suppose I feel strongly about this because my 'elective' was truly elective. It was not because of a breach baby or any other medical indication, but because I wanted my baby on a Saturday when DH could be there.

I don't feel like a failure, or a lesser woman, and I don't think women should be made feel like that.

I've said before, and I'll say it again - the day my son was born was truly the best, happiest and most fulfilling day of my life.

As long as a woman settles on the right birth plan** for her, it ought not matter what that plan is.

(** I have no idea what freebirthing is, so that's not included in this statement!)

Agree that cs can be chosen out of fear.

But there is lots to fear giving birth on the NHS - the horror stories of women being left alone in labour, revolving, inexperienced, indifferent, sometimes sadistic midwives, induction/instrument happy medics, then women left to pick up the pieces themselves. This is just from mn, corroborated by my brother who did a medical rotation in the obstetrics department of a major hospital. It is such a lottery who you get, how busy the hospital is at the time you rock up, your own presentation etc.

In the hospital I was having my elective, it was so busy women were delivering 4 to a room and the maternity unit eventually closed to new admissions and were ambulancing women away to a hospital in another borough. Boy was I glad I was getting an elective.

The certainty of a elective cs is bliss in comparison.

twinkle,
so we saw the consultant that was suggesting the e.c.section and we've decided we're going to go with him because he's taking my prior medical conditions + massive pregnancy weight gain and crazy blood pressure instead of just the pregnancy itself. he was pushy, but i took a list of concerns and my husband (for support) and we spent about 2 hours speaking with the consultant and feel he answered every question to our satisfaction, I do feel much better and even confident because I'm realizing that c.sections aren't dangerous at all. i am a little annoyed with the misconceptions that sooo many people have about the procedure but i'm used to this as being the norm in the UK...lets not get started on the attitudes I recieved when I used to say I wanted an epidural!

so i'm going to Hazem el Refaey who has also promised I won't be having the overhanging skin and will have me with a dietition and a trainer to get my body back safely after the delivery. I feel like my life isn't spiralling out of control anymore. (and I'm delivering in the Kensington Wing at the Chelsea and Westminster) because it's where I feel most comfortable.

Teoh, he's the baby king I hear about all the time. I called him when I found out I was pregnant but he was booked through October. (I'm due end of August/beg of Sept).

actually, my consultant didn't promise no overhang he just said there wouldn't be any. i think i'm starting to worry again.