to think that some MNers are just a tweensy bit biased when it comes to elective CS?

[youcannotbeserious]

Why is it, when anyone ever posts that they want an elective CS / considering going private, LOTS of MNers start going on about the risks (I appreciate that they exist and, to be fair, they are explained in detail by the consultant and you have to sign a waiver so you are fully aware of them) and needing to be in an NHS hospital 'just in case' and you wouldn't want to be in one of those pesky private hospitals, but the same never gets said for home births which, as far as I can see, must have a reasonably equal risk of needing to go to transfer to a hospital?

Why is it that Elec. CSs are so frowned upon?

I'm genuinely curious - I had to defend my 'birth plan' several times here on MN - and I don't honestly see why it's so emotive... Should I run for it now?

youcannot.. thank you for answering my question, i am glad your birth experience was very positive.

Just to add I would not advise anyone to have either a VB or a CS, but I would always support an informed choice. I do find it hard to believe, despite the research, that a medical procedure could ever be as safe as the way nature intended it!!

Batters - good question...

See, when i was first thinking about having an elec CS, i posted my about situation and was shot down in flames..

I obviously hadn't educated myself enough, hadn't read up enough, hadn't fully considered the options or realised the extent of the abdominal surgery...

Well, I did do all of those things. And I stuck to my guns and had the birth I wanted and was right for me. But very little of that information came from MN. Now, If I'd been after information on hyponobirthing, home birthing, birthing in a field with no drugs but some nice cows to look at , I think I'd have got far more advice, IYSWIM.

I suppose my ultimate point is that, VB can be a wonderful experience but it can be horrendous. That's something that we all understand. Obviously the same is true of CS, so why the need to point out the risks (to whatever extent they exist?)

To be fair, by the time the baby was due, I was totally happy with my birth plan and felt no need to justify it to anyone

But, I still don't understand why the downer on them. It's an option, neccesary in some cases, desired in others... so why is deemed 'less acceptable' than desiring any other birth method???

And thankyou Lulumama...

I did indeed have a very positive and happy birth experience - and have a gorgeous (but squawking!) DS in my arms here!!!

If I could dip a toe in... if there's not a really good reason - ie medical imperative- for you to have a section, you are putting yourself in a tricky situation for any subsequent pregnancy you might have.

I have yet to see my full notes (next week) but I believe my emcs was made necessary by poor management on the delivery ward, but I was told there was something wrong with me that would make natural delivery a no no. SO I have now had 2 c-sections that I prolly could have avoided, and whatever happens there are now greatly increased risks for me and the baby however she arrives. Not good.

But that's just me. I agree, people's individual, informed choices should be respected.

And I was actually told the full risks associated with my c-sections by the medical staff before I had the surgery. I just wasn't told I had an option second time around.

In RL I don't know ANYONE who was just able to 'elect' a CS; the elective ones have been for clinical reasons. I think we're debating a debate that doesn't really exist

Of course I guess it's up for argument how much of the 'electing' is done because hospitals are risk averse etc.

I was interested in what you said Lulumama about women starting to fear vaginal birth now - I think women have ALWAYS feared it; and in the past with very good reason. It often meant death, and women had to face that thought with every unavoidable pregnancy.

I think it's a very new way of thinking, that it is nothing to fear...and the medical model of childbirth funnily enough has brought about both that assumption (it's not to be feared) and at the same time, that risk averse culture which leads to more CS

I don't think that hosptials being risk averse, or because they can't be bothered to request birth notes form another local hospital were good clinical reasons for a planned section, personally. That was my point.

Honoria - I did just elect a CS. I'd say the majority of my friends have done the same.

First baby and no medical indications so to speak.

AFAIK, notes will often refer to 'problem with pelvic floor' when a woman has elected a CS - there was certainly a bit of a joke between a few friends of mine that it was code for 'problem with not having a pelvic floor if she gives birth naturally' - but I'm not 100% sure that's true and not just a rumour!!

I see. I'm referring to my notes for my emergency section.

Some posters still cant't differentiate between an elective CS and an emergency CS. I have read threads before on this topic and the worst comments for elective CS were often those who had had an emergency CS, which is a different matter. Nobody is asking if they should have an emergency CS!

Ultimately the CS procedure is now in place, a luxury our grandmothers couldn't enjoy. Nature didn't have an alternative before other than pushing it out of your fanjo so why does that automatically make it safer in principle?

And most unfortunately nature can get it wrong, or there would't need to be any emergency procedures would there?

I think it's terrible that women can pick on other women for not having/wanting a VB. It does not make them less of a mother. We are not living in the dark ages!!! (or are we )

Oh dear I hope you don't mean me, because I've had both, and believe me, I know the difference

See, I agree with Angeldoll's principle:

Why should choosing a CS be any better / worse than choosing a water birth or a home birth or a hypnobirth?

That's my point!

Why is choosing a CS seen as a less 'motherly' thing to do???

Nooo Pinky! I really didn't mean you at all, honestly (can see how you would think I was though) .
I was referring to previous posts also posts from other threads - where they accept the post is about elec not emerg but refuse to acknowledge there is any difference whatsoever between the two operations...

the thing is though, thinking about the risks of childbirth, the majority of childbed deaths were tjo do with fever/and loss of blood rather than vaginal birth itself.
in fact your risk of infection for mother and baby is greater in hpsital (obviously) and much greater in the case of a medicalised birth rather than vaginal birth without intervention.
a home vaginal birth is, simply, safer for you and your baby.
I can't see what is biased about having a clear headed view of that, while respecting other people's informed choices.

I know, YCBS. Giving birth whichever way it's done has has risks. It should be up to the individual which risks they are prepared to take and which they are not.

I am concerned about the faintly patronising air of some (only some) of those who favour VB. Just because VB is was right for one person doesn't make it right for everyone else.

One person's "exhilarating" VB is another person's "total nightmare". That's because a VB is just as unpredictable as a CS. Who out there can predict a perfect VB for us all? Cos you'll make a fortune .

Ignore the crap about 'motherliness'. That has nothing to do with anything. It's the risks and potential risks you have to weigh up, for yourself.

Harpsichord, quite. How many of those childbed deaths would have been avoided if there was a CS procedure available in those days?

Some home births may be safer statistically (and I am dubious about stats as generally you can find flaws and inconsistencies in them) but there has to be some that don't work out and I certainly don't want to be one of them no matter what the stats say!
There is such a small window to get a baby out safely, why not do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Message withdrawn

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But why Pruners?

I wanted an Elec. CS. I researched, had a doula etc., and decided that this was right for me. I had a wonderful perfect birth and have a wonderful perfect son.

Did I just not read extensively enough?

I am not trying to claim that CS is not without it's risks / negatives - but then no birth plan is....

And, I would advocate an Elec. CS to anyone PG woman who was weighing up her options.

angeldoll, I think you misunderstand my post.
how many women dying of childbed fever would have been alive if there had been a CS procedure = absolutely NONE.
in fact having a CS would have made it more likely they would have died.

Why would anyone have an elective CS?
It's major surgery.
Far safer birth and quicker recovery with VB

YCBS - are you claiming CS is not more risky than VB?
obviously it is a matter of personal choice, but the risks are there and thay are real. one may choose to take them, but that doesn't change them.
the risk of infection is the one that would worry me the most tbh, given recent experience of hospital infections.
hospitals are no place for a newborn imo.
I have had an elective CS by the way, in case it is relevant

Anyway, YANBU, MNers are biased, but with good reason.
I hope ECS is never seen as on a par with VB.