to think that some MNers are just a tweensy bit biased when it comes to elective CS?

[youcannotbeserious]

Why is it, when anyone ever posts that they want an elective CS / considering going private, LOTS of MNers start going on about the risks (I appreciate that they exist and, to be fair, they are explained in detail by the consultant and you have to sign a waiver so you are fully aware of them) and needing to be in an NHS hospital 'just in case' and you wouldn't want to be in one of those pesky private hospitals, but the same never gets said for home births which, as far as I can see, must have a reasonably equal risk of needing to go to transfer to a hospital?

Why is it that Elec. CSs are so frowned upon?

I'm genuinely curious - I had to defend my 'birth plan' several times here on MN - and I don't honestly see why it's so emotive... Should I run for it now?

It's not just to avoid an Em CS though is it?

I suppose it's about control. Yes, it's surgery, yes there is pain and risk involved, but you know what you are in for, IYSWIM.

What put me off VB so much was the whole unknown quantity: It MIGHT have been good, but it might equally have been a blardy nightmare... (not just Em CS, but tearing stitches, incontinence etc)

I had elective CS with DS1 - he was breech and I was strongly advised to go for CS. The consultant fully explained all risks. I do find it very patronising that some people assume that I would have a major operation without seriously thinking about it.

I had a VBAC with DS2 and I can honestly say that they were both great births. However, it was much, much easier recovering after a CS.

My sis and her baby nearly died after her VBAC. Her consultant, however, completely dismissed her worries about her womb tearing at her 24 week check. VBACs do carry risk (albeit small like CSs) but these are completely brushed under the carpet. Luckily both sis and baby were fine (eventually) but that was down to pure luck more than anything else.

It depends on the reason for the elective CS. But if it's just because a mum doesn't fancy a VB, then yes, I have a prejudice against it. But that's rarely the case, isn't it?

Also with elective CS, the baby isn't exposed to the amazing birth hormones like the lovely oxytocin. Nor is the child exposed to the flora and fauna of the birth canal which is great for its immune system. Nor does the child get 'squeezed' like in a VB which forces out all the fluid from its lungs. There are so many pluses for the child to be born vaginally.

It's a shame that breech birth now means CS because midwives rarely see it and don't know how to deliver a breech. If I had a breech baby, I'd insist on a midwife who knew how to deliver them.

Who wants to recover from major surgery with a new baby? I had an emergency CS. I know that's more difficult to recover fromhaving gone through some hours of labour but I would never ever want a CS again, elective or no. I don't want my body cut open, you see.

I think you have to define elective sections in context though.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with someone who his planning an elective after a previous C-section.

However, I think that someone who is pregnant with their first baby, and is inclined to have a C-section without medical indication, should be encouraged to look beyond the horror stories some women have of vaginal birth and really educate themselves and open their minds before making a decision.

But obviously if it were life or death, I'd opt for emergency CS.

I had a VBAC afters by the way and it all went very smoothly. For which I'm very very grateful. Complications with VBACs are rare.

Shame about the NCT "bitches". I've only ever had support and understanding from my exposure to the NCT. I guess with every organisation, you get hardliners or insensitive people.

even the 4th degree tear, on top of the episiotomy (sp) I had after having DS2, which took months to heal properly, I still found it easier to recover from his birth than I did DS1's very relaxed (I wasn't even having braxton hicks - let alone contractions) EMC.

I don't want to get involved with whichever way is safer, but in response to the original post - I had a planned cs, and D went private. I asked advice re what to expect, consultants, hospitals etc, explained the reasons why I had to have cs, and everyone on MN was lovely and helpful. In real life I got a lot of "too posh to push" comments, so much so that I considered lying and saying it's vb or just not answering. (This was from colleagues, mostly guys, and I didn't really want into the how's and why's at work.) So yes, sometimes people are biased, but in a lot of cases they mean well. And even when not, in my experience MN posters have only been nice.

I really wanted a natural birth, unfortunately I chose an elective on the same day as I couldn't risk an ec due to fibroids which if accidently cut would have resulted in an hysterectomy.

I do think that the complications of CS are very much explained, when the complications of VB are not. I am not surprised, though, it is not nice to hear the stories of being sewn up too tightly by the midwife resulting in virtually impossible sex and the necessity of another operation to cut out the scar tissue and restitch, for expample. Then there is the incontinence.

Having had a terrible, agonisingly painful labour ending in EmCS I will be having an elective CS if i have another child. My CS was fantastic and i had no complications. It would have been nice not to have had to go through 11 hours of syntocin drip without any pain relief at all. (the epidural did not work and the midwife didn't believe me- hours of screaming pain before they resited......11 hours later)

If all midwives were great, it would be one thing. But the majority appear not to be. There also seems to be a bizarre power struggle with MWs and doctors which IMO is not healthy and detracts from what is best for the patient

"However, I think that someone who is pregnant with their first baby, and is inclined to have a C-section without medical indication, should be encouraged to look beyond the horror stories some women have of vaginal birth and really educate themselves and open their minds before making a decision. "

Until what???? They come to the "right" conclusion????

It was my first baby.
I had a C section through choice without medical indication.
I had a doula and did plenty of research.
Why is that wrong?

WillyWonkola - midwives will deliver breech babies, I would imagine all are trained in this. However, in my case my baby was double breech so the midwives would not deliver. Again, I find it patronising that you assume expectant mothers would not look into this. Good for you to demand a midwife but in my case I was advised that CS was for the best.

Complications after VBACs are rare but can be horrific. My sister was lucky to not die, so was her baby and it is a miracle that he is not brained damaged.

It;'s not patronising, though@waffletress. Medical professions don't always give women the facts to base their decision on. Women often don't have all the facts they should have. I was given a c-section for 'medical reasons' which I later researched and found to be totally bogus, to be honest.

I had a home birth with DS, which ended in an emergency transfer to hospital and reconstructive vaginal surgery following forceps delivery.

I had DD two years later by elective cs.

I rather felt the risks to me and the baby were less than the risks of another vaginal delivery!

As with education, some people just feel the need to judge, whatever you do...

I had a home birth with DS, which ended in an emergency transfer to hospital and reconstructive vaginal surgery following forceps delivery.

I had DD two years later by elective cs.

I rather felt the risks to me and the baby were less than the risks of another vaginal delivery!

As with education, some people just feel the need to judge, whatever you do...

Oops!!

Mrs Mattie - I looked mine up and guess what, the consultant was telling the truth. They are not all hell bent on unecessary surgery.

No they aren't@waffletress. I'm under terriffic midwife and consultant care at UCH this time around and they are brilliant so far - really supportive and helping me to empower myself by giving m,e lots of information and encouragement. However, the c-section rate in this country is shockingly high. How do you explain that?

I think we cannot trust the medical profession or the government so it is very difficult to make informed decisions about childbirth

eg MMR - lots of misinformation & mistrust...did Leo really get the jab or not etc

Is healthcare advice on childbirth actually heavily influenced by what is cheapest not what is best?

but at the end of the day surely a woman has a right to choose and different choices are right for different women?

Obviously there are those on mumsnet as in real life who will tell you that they know better than you do what is best for you

Ignore those people

To answer the OP's question, I would agree that MNers are definitely biased against c-sections, elective or otherwise. As soon as you say you may want one, a witch hunt begins which focuses on all the negatives but none of the positives. Why do people never point out the negatives of vaginal birth? I had an emergency c-section but it was a fantastic, pain free experience with a good recovery whereas several people I know had vaginal birth but suffered bad tearing and other complications. I'm not saying c-sections are risk free but I got so sick of hearing the line, "it's major abdominal surgery". Yes it is but vaginal birth can, and often does, have serious or painful side effects which are glossed over.

YCBS-Did you not read the part about educating themselves?

You had your reason which are perfectly valid and you did your research and came to a conclusion you were happy with. I'm not going to argue with that.

I personally feel that someone who says they want a C-section for their first birth (without medical reasons) shouldn't be encouraged to have a one until they've really explored all their options.

With my first baby I was so terrified of giving birth and desperately wanted a C-section. I don't know anyone in real life that has had a vaginal birth, and everyone told me to have a C-section. I talked to my midwife about it, and she told me to take a hypnobirthing class. I left that class feeling much better about vaginal birth and am thankful that my midwife had the common sense to point me in a different direction than the one I was going in. At the end of the day giving birth was the most wonderful, empowering thing I've ever done, and it wasn't that scary after all.

Erm, sorry to sound patronising Waffletrees but it's well known that most people simply accept what they are told by medical staff without questioning it.

I do get rather bored of being told to fetch facts and figures, which you now have to pay for, Yawn........
BMJ
The risk of permanent brain damage due to labour is difficult to quantify: 1 in 1750 labours results in hypoxic ischaemic encephalopathy, from which many babies recover, whereas intrapartum events account for about 10% of all babies with cerebral palsy, although recent work suggests this might be an underestimate. In addition to these risks, as gestation progresses beyond the due date and spontaneous labour is awaited, unexpected intrauterine death occurs in about 1 in 600 pregnancies.16 Elective caesarean section cannot guarantee normality, but it avoids the above problems by virtue of avoiding labour and prolonged pregnancy. Short term complications to the neonate of transient tachypnoea and respiratory distress syndrome are reduced by delaying elective caesarean section until 39 weeks of pregnancy have been completed.
Caesarean delivery in labour, compared with vaginal delivery, is more likely to be associated with an increased risk for respiratory conditions and depression at birth than caesarean delivery without labour. Caesarean delivery appears protective against neonatal birth trauma, especially when performed without labour.

The whole part about the avoidance of EMCS is rather tongue in cheek but still pretty relevant. I also read in the same article that now escapes me that the belief that labour will not be successful is one of the largest factors in leading to n emergency section.

I think the phrase "too posh to push" is a bit unfair.

It's our bodies and we should deliver our babies however we want! Through the vayjayjay, through the stomach.........personally I'm hoping they'll invent a process where you can get the sperm and egg together in a kind of sterile jug and just grow the baby outside anyone's body. That would be ideal.

Women have had to put up with pregnancy and labour for too long now, enough is enough, let's try and find some other solution!!!