Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that some MNers are just a tweensy bit biased when it comes to elective CS?

371 replies

youcannotbeserious · 26/06/2008 17:06

Why is it, when anyone ever posts that they want an elective CS / considering going private, LOTS of MNers start going on about the risks (I appreciate that they exist and, to be fair, they are explained in detail by the consultant and you have to sign a waiver so you are fully aware of them) and needing to be in an NHS hospital 'just in case' and you wouldn't want to be in one of those pesky private hospitals, but the same never gets said for home births which, as far as I can see, must have a reasonably equal risk of needing to go to transfer to a hospital?

Why is it that Elec. CSs are so frowned upon?

I'm genuinely curious - I had to defend my 'birth plan' several times here on MN - and I don't honestly see why it's so emotive... Should I run for it now?

OP posts:
ChukkyPig · 30/06/2008 20:40

The obstetricians stat may be because by default, they have ultimate faith and confidence in medical procedures. They are the ones performing the CS's so they must believe that they are worthwhile and safe.

As an analogy; my mum is an anaesthetist and when talking about my pain relief options, she just looked at me and said, well you're having an epidural. I said hmm I'll wait and see. She said, you're having an epidural. End of conversation.

And I understand why - she had given them to women in labour before she had her own children. She believed they were effective pain relief, that they were a wonderful thing to relieve the pain of labour, and it was her thing, her job. She put her money where her mouth was and had epidurals with us.

As it was I ended up with an emergency CS due to foetal distress after a hideous induction. And FWIW I recovered very quickly, was surprised at how well I did. My freinds who had VBs and couldn't sit down for weeks were a bit stunned.

I think (controversially I'm afraid) that a major factor in pushing VB in the NHS, is the hideous cost involved in providing CS.

Pruners · 30/06/2008 20:44

Message withdrawn

Pruners · 30/06/2008 20:45

Message withdrawn

MilkMonitor · 30/06/2008 20:51

Women's bodies are designed to give birth vaginally.

I don't think cost has much to do with it.

It's much much better for the baby to be born vaginally as long as it's all straightforward and happening right. And it's usually the case that most births go very smoothly despite all the horror stories we hear about.

silverfrog · 30/06/2008 20:52

In a way, my midwife "pushed" a vbac when I was pregnant with dd2. She kept saying, all the way through my pregnancy "just because you failed to dilate with dd1, doesn't mean the same will happen this time". This may be true, for all I know, but she did not say it with conviction, iyswim.

I was in no way "wanting" a second cs. What I wanted was as trouble free a birth as possible, however that came about. I needed to be up and about asap after the birth, as dd1 is disabled, and needed me, and only me (she is autistic, and at that point would refuse all other care from anyone else). Every time I tried to raise the subject, my midwife trotted out the "vbac is perfectly possible" line, without giving me any furhter info, or discussing statistics etc.

when it came to it, and I had a second cs, her first words to me, post cs were "of course, most people who have non-progression of labour as the reason for their first cs end up having a second cs".

I wanted to scream, quite honestly. So yes, I did feel as though vb was "pushed" during my second pregnancy.

Pruners · 30/06/2008 20:54

Message withdrawn

ChukkyPig · 30/06/2008 20:54

But if they have a CS the people performing it will be their colleages as well. And it's not exactly elegant, you still have your bits out, and they get to see your gaping innards, nice! Unless you go private, I suppose. But you could have a private VB.

As for the "pushing it" thing, I have so many mixed feelings about this.

Certainly performing CS costs the NHS huge amounts of money. Which they would like to make savings on I'm sure.

However they do only give CS to people who need them, I'm sure. Probably differs a bit from consultant to consultant, but I can't imagine many people in good health with nothing unusual going on will be able to talk them into it.

I just found it odd that it was not mentioned at all at either my NCT or NHS ante-natal and when people asked about it they just didn't want to talk about it. And of course a lot of first timers (and other timers) do end up with CS and then a lot of them feel that they have failed in some way.

I just wonder, why the silence about CS at ante-natal? Also epidurals a definite no-no at the classes I went to - again a cost thing?

blueshoes · 30/06/2008 20:56

Another way of 'pushing vb' is by bigging up the risks of cs and downplaying the risks of vb.

I was told by an experienced midwife the risk of a 3rd/4th degree tear in a first time mother was 1%. When 50% of my friends who had vbs had horrendous tears and instrumental deliveries.

allytjd · 30/06/2008 21:00

Have not read every last word of all the posts but i don,t think anyone has mentioned the very real risk of secondary infertility following a c-section, this happened to my sister after a c-section at a hospital in New York, her uterus was torn as they pulled her DS out (just missing her uterine artery!) and the after care was poor and she probably had an post op infection that has left her with adhesions that basically buggered up her tubes. This is probably also why my grandmother also only had one child after her section in the 'forties. I know several people who had infections after sections but none after v-births. I feel I know what I'm talking about as My gran had a section, my mum had three, my sister had one and I have had two and a forceps, the only vaginal birth in our family for three generations! I have to add though that the piles and stitches i had after DS2 were worse than the c-section scar.

silverfrog · 30/06/2008 21:03

oh, she was hopeless tbh, Pruners. If I get pregnant again, there is no way I am having her again.

All I wanted was for a balanced appraisal of my situation - I was not bothered by how I gave birth, but it was incredibly important that my birth plan was flexible either way - dd1 had to be my biggest consideration, as she s already here, and would have been very traumatised ot have had me absent for any length of time. As it was, i had dd2 on the Friday night, and was home on Monday, with dd1 visiting lots over the weekend.

It would have been helpful to me to have had info on how many vbacs are successful etc, as I had to make a detailed plan for dd1, and to do tht wihtout knowing what chance I ah of having a cs or a vbac was almost impossible.

Doobydoo · 30/06/2008 21:04

I should have had an emergency section with my first child who died 2 weeks after birth.I should have had an elective section with my 2nd child but ended up having an emergency section.He is fine.I had an elective section with my 3rd child and he and me! are fine!xx

ChukkyPig · 30/06/2008 21:05

MilkMonitor, you're right, human beings are designed to give birth vaginally.

Before modern medicine came along, and everyone had to give birth vaginally, the death rates for both mothers and babies were huge. Massive blood loss was common. Women had to undergo very long and difficult labours with no pain relief.

And as for internal tears, untreated they were extremely dangerous and unpleasant. And as we know, fistula charities continue to work in the third world where the prevalence of "natural" births causes pain, discomfort and death daily.

CS is at the extreme end of what is available to aid birth in our country. It is statistically a very safe procedure.

Sorry for the rant this is a real bugbear, the whole "natural" birth thing. You can't pick and choose which parts of modern medicine are acceptable and which are not, arbitrarily.

Pruners · 30/06/2008 21:05

Message withdrawn

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 30/06/2008 21:06

when I was pg with my dd, if the consultants had said to me "the safest way to get your child out is by pulling her out through your eye ball", I would have done it.

I had a horrible pregnancy (not as horrible as some of the ones you can read on here, but still not nice) and p/eclampsia, and a breech baby.

I opted for a section. I felt, given my issues, that it was safer.

I dont know what I will do when I have another. I'm not even planning to get pg yet (got to move home first, just in case we have a boy!) but I do think about how I will have them, section, VBAC etc.

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 30/06/2008 21:08

"CS though does involve much more dignity - vb cannot be said to be conventionally dignified! For example you are not going to have a midwife colleague (whom you may look down on or feel challenged by) wiping shit from your bottom or seeing you straining and lowing as you push."

I was morto when a midwife came in the morning of my section to shave my delicate area in prep (did not know they were going to do that!) and laughed with DH that it couldn't get any worse... until the day after I had dd, still hooked up to IV's and cathether etc, when they came in to change my maternity pad. CRINGE

Pruners · 30/06/2008 21:08

Message withdrawn

Pruners · 30/06/2008 21:10

Message withdrawn

K999 · 30/06/2008 21:12

Had emergency section first time round....it was not pleasant but after 4 days in labour was essential!! Opted for elec CS second time round and it was wonderful from start to finish!! And knowing when you are going to give birth was fab!! Was able to book pleny of time to get everything done and childcare for DD was easy to organise! If I get pregnant again would definately opt for another elec CS!!

twinkle3869 · 30/06/2008 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

blueshoes · 30/06/2008 21:13

silverfrog, selective presentation/withholding of info in the way you described IS pushing vb.

I agree that it is difficult to go for VBAC without sufficient info. My hospital's policy was for women to attend a VBAC clinic to discuss the risks for that woman based on her previous history. Which was well and good but for the fact the hospital lost my notes for the first delivery . Good thing for them too seeing that the midwife who was supposed to continuously monitor my induction had her nose buried in her book and did not notice my dd's heart decels for 15 minutes. Result: crash section under GA and dd pulled out 11 minutes later. Still good recovery though!

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 30/06/2008 21:13

be gentle with me, only had a section so far!

Was quite faint when DH wandered to see the new arrival and had a good look up inside my stomach on his way back.

A friend of mine had a natural delivery a few weeks before I had my DD, and she had a section (breechie) a year afterwards. It took me AGES to warn her to ensure she'd shaved to prevent the midwife doing it with a bic - her words were "aw, Christ, you're kidding"...

blueshoes · 30/06/2008 21:14

doobydoo, sorry to hear about your first child.

blueshoes · 30/06/2008 21:18

pruners, the 1% stat was the midwife giving her view in her experience. The 50% is based on a straw poll of my friends, as I explained earlier.

Pruners · 30/06/2008 21:22

Message withdrawn

ChukkyPig · 30/06/2008 21:28

Blueshoes similar story for me. Had induction, when it started everthing felt really wrong to me, the contractions felt wrong, I was vomiting and shaking violently, meconium coming through with waters.

The midwife told me that I had a low pain threshold and that I wasn't in labour "properly".

Eventually she decided to get a doc, she told me they were all very busy and that there was nothing wrong but if she could see anyone around she'd get them to have a quick look.

Consultant came in took one look at monitor, straight off for CS. Baby extremely distressed, was fine though fortunately.

The worst thing of it all is, I want another baby, and VBAC sounds good and something I may want to consider. But I have been told by a midwife that I have a low pain threshold and she scorned the fact I was in a right state when I "wasn't even in labour".