to think that some MNers are just a tweensy bit biased when it comes to elective CS?

[youcannotbeserious]

Why is it, when anyone ever posts that they want an elective CS / considering going private, LOTS of MNers start going on about the risks (I appreciate that they exist and, to be fair, they are explained in detail by the consultant and you have to sign a waiver so you are fully aware of them) and needing to be in an NHS hospital 'just in case' and you wouldn't want to be in one of those pesky private hospitals, but the same never gets said for home births which, as far as I can see, must have a reasonably equal risk of needing to go to transfer to a hospital?

Why is it that Elec. CSs are so frowned upon?

I'm genuinely curious - I had to defend my 'birth plan' several times here on MN - and I don't honestly see why it's so emotive... Should I run for it now?

twinkle you have a lot of common sense and i'm glad i'm hearing from you. i think an hour or two in a creche while i'm working out can only be positive for a baby that age especially if it means i'll have a clear head at the end of it.

Very brave post OP. Haven't had time to read the whole thread but I think one of the reasons MN is quite anti CS is that there is a quite vocal pro natural childbirth "lobby" who become quite evangelical about their experience. They had a wonderful, amazing experience and want to spread the word. When I first joined MN, I spent most time on the childbirth section and used to become quite irritated by it but now I can see it's mostly well meant but just becomes a bit too judgmental sometimes.

The bit that has always amazed me is how pro home birth MN is but that's a whole other thread.

Because, imo, MN is essentially the NCT online. Which is why it's my spiritual home. And let's not forget how many major changes for the better in midwifery and obstetrics the NCT spear-headed during the 80s. If the price for no longer being forced to labour immobile and have compulsory shaving, enema and episiotomy is a certain bias against major life-threatening yet unnecessary surgery then so be it... Sorry.

"MN is essentially the NCT online." Wow- but not really surprised to hear that. Are there a lot of informal connections then?

duchesse, cs is 'major life-threatening' surgery - is this is the NCT official line? Must make women who end up with emergency cs feel really shit. I guess I am lucky to survive 2. Wonder why I have nothing to do with NCT beyond their antenatal class.

Anyway, I thought cs was supposed to save lives, not 'threaten' them.

blueshoes on Mon 30-Jun-08 13:55:35
"duchesse, cs is 'major life-threatening' surgery - is this is the NCT official line? Must make women who end up with emergency cs feel really shit."

Some of my NCT friends seemed very keen to "talk" to me about my experience of emergency CS. They seemed to think that I must need support and counselling to ensure that I did not buckle under the weight of inferiority and worthlessness as a woman. It was very hard to drive into their heads that I felt nothing at all about the manner of delivery. It just wasn't important to me. If I could have had it done by Parcelforce, then that would have been fine by me. My Mum, after all, had her youngest delivered by Scandinavian Airlines.

oops

i would dispute that duchesse... the NCt has done a huge amount of good. but i also see the bad, i am involved at a local level, but after looking into their AN teaching course and various otehr things. i have realised their ethos is not one that always sits well.

although i do know an AN teacher who is absolutely sensational.....but i think that is in spite of, not because of the NCT. IFYSWIM

i don;t think that MN is the NCT online

if it is, i would distance myself from it

the NCT has disappointed me on a number of levels.

1. of course that's not the NCT official line- do I look like beverley whassername? Any invasive surgery involving GA and fiddling around inside a person's body with instruments is life-threating, particularly now that various antibiotic resistants pathogens persist in hospitals. A GA itself could kill you. Even resetting a bone under GA is life-threatening. The question to ask is which is more likely to kill you/ leave you permanently damaged- havig the surgery or not having the surgery? I think we all take surgery too lightly now. (and you can bet your bottom dollar I include cosmetic procedures in that)

2. ok, ok, maybe it was remiss of me to compare MN to the NCT. I should have realised it was stirring up sh1t with a stick. They did achieve a hell of a lot in the 1980s though, for us all, like it or not. Maybe I was lucky to have a good supportive NCT group.

Twinkle You and I would get on!!!

I, too, loathe the NCT. How is their approach 'empowering' women???

And, as someone else rightly said: Quite a few have benefited from 'major surgery' to the boobs and nose!

I'll say, for the millionth time, I'm not trying to say CS is risk free or right for everyone, but it is an option and a good one for some people.

it was for me, it was the right option and one I thoroughly enjoyed (if that's the right word - what I mean is I have wonderful memories of my son's entrance to the world)

I don't see why women should be made feel bad for selecting a CS for whatever reason.

FWIW, duchesse, Crossing the road could kill you.

The point is, it probably won't.

And what's on the other side of the road might actually be worth crossing for...

twinkle, i'm enjoying his kicks, i'm sure i'll enjoy motherhood more than pregnancy as long as i can regain some control in my daily life.

cory: "If I could have had it done by Parcelforce, then that would have been fine by me."

PMSL!

They don't give you a medal either way so do what works for you for goodness sake! Personally, I don't feel that pregnancy is something to deal with via an operation but can understand that there are some who prefer or are forced by nature to have c-sections, emergency or not. Live and let live.

At least you don't get a wizards sleeve with a CS!

turniphead as i think has been mentioned before, you could say the same thing about planning a VB on the NHS.

I suppose I agree with you, Turniphead.... the whole benefit of MN is that people provide their opinions, their experiences etc., and that's a huge help to many with less experience (I;m a new first time mum)

I do wonder how anyone can get too far down the road without the risks attached to a CS being explained - my consultant explained them fully several times (but the risks associated with VB were NEVER explained - just left that they were 'less' than CS... That made me feel uncomfortable and I do feel that those who favour VB should be more up front with this risks attached to VB if they wish to over come the fear attached to childbirth. (I'm only speaking from my own experience - a CS was a known quantity, IYSWIM... A VB was not and I suppose the fear of the unknown can be powerful)

I agree, though, I would not have wanted a CS on the NHS. And I do feel that non-medical elec. CS should be performed privately.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but we cannot expect others to pay for them.

Sorry, would like to explain: The reason I felt uncomfortable with the risks attached to VB being less than CS is that, from personal experience, my friends who'd had elec. CS all had great experiences whereas those who'd had VB generally had worse experiences and some had frankly, terrible experiences which had put them off sex and childbirth going forward.

What was discussed further down the thread, turniphead, was the lack of consistencies re standard of midwives. I went for a VB, but had a terrible midwife and ended up with a CS. I don't know if i could have managed a VB with a different midwife, but fortunately i am a pragmatist and didn't beat myself up about having an emCS. If i wasn't so philosophical about it, i could have easily felt like a failure and been emotionally scarred by my experience.

Again in prviate practice you are more likely to get a MW you know, or at least i am sure complaints in private practice are taken more seriously because it is a business and i suspect that standards are rather more consistent. I have no confidence that my letter of complaint will do anything to improve standards, because, lets face it they are never going to be short of patients.