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The public doesn't hate Net Zero as much as RW politicians insist they do

378 replies

Echobelly · 23/07/2026 21:55

Politicians like Kemi Badenoch and right wing newspaper front pages love to talk as though everyone hates Net Zero and sustainability as concepts and wants us to get on with burning coal and drilling for oil. They seem to stake an awful lot on people not like sustainability mostly because they see it as 'woke' as far as I can tell.

I think most people don't think about it enough to hate it really and most people broadly want the outcomes of improved sustainability but would like it to happen without it needing any investment. I reckon some people don't like feeling 'nagged' about saving the environment and in many ways I don't blame them as, while we should all do our bit, really it's up to governments and big businesses to actually do the damn work to truly make a difference.

Maybe Net Zero has a bit of a PR problem as it sounds unachievable, and also maybe it sounds like you get nothing, or something will be taken away from you/society. It might do better to have a name that sounds more 'positive'. But it's a shame because ultimately, even if for some reason you don't believe in climate change it seems to me that the benefits of renewable energy (such as ending energy dependence on some not always friendly countries and less pollution) are pretty clear and I'm not sure people realise it's not just powering a few kettles, it's often around 50% of UK energy production

OP posts:
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WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 19:56

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 19:41

Literally every single one of those problems can be solved by changing the rules / altering policy.

”Oh we can’t do it because some ink exists in close proximity with some paper”.

Jesus wept.

Make. It. Happen.

How are you going to change this then? Any details or plans? How are you magically going to change the economics and cost structure? Please educate me.

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 20:10

Benvenuto · Yesterday 19:44

What’s to address - you can fly to all of the destinations you mention from Heathrow & I think our definitions of what being poor means differ somewhat. The rail companies are all being nationalised so they can’t have a “toxic monopoly” & people’s lifestyles may well have to change with climate change. Not being able to fly is a fairly minor issue compared to the disruption those caught up in the current wildfires are facing & sadly those wildfires may mean traditional tourist resorts are no longer so appealing as holiday destinations.

Thankfully your plans will never come to fruition. People will still fly, they just won't chose the UK as a base

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 20:40

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 19:56

How are you going to change this then? Any details or plans? How are you magically going to change the economics and cost structure? Please educate me.

Move 1) The UK joins Schengen. This removes passport processing delays altogether. You just get the train.

Move 2) We ban flights from Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels from landing at any UK airport.

Move 3) We form a trilateral partnership with France and Belgium to rewrite the rules around the operation and use of the channel tunnel.

Move 4) That trilateral partnership agrees fair subsidies for EU or UK passport holders to use the service at a significantly lower price, ensuring the cost of operating it is met for the operating companies.

Move 5) Write off any outstanding finance arrangements on the tunnel itself, and do not charge train companies for using it.

Move 6) End the monopoly of Eurostar / LeShuttle.

DdraigGoch · Yesterday 21:03

justasking111 · 23/07/2026 22:22

Was talking to some architects recently. It's looking like the present planning and design of buildings will be consigned to the bin in parts of Europe including the UK because of climate change. Underfloor heating will be off the table, large areas of glass. We'll be looking at ways to avoid getting too hot.

Why would underfloor heating be "off the table"? You know that if it is run from a heatpump it can also be used to cool a floor (and by extension a ceiling if installed in the floor above)?

DdraigGoch · Yesterday 21:14

1dayatatime · 24/07/2026 00:04

I saw a great example of the lack of logic in net zero in Australia.
So Australia mines large amounts of coal, but because of environmental restrictions then don't burn it to produce electricity.
Instead they export it by polluting trains and ships all the way to China.
Once in China it gets burnt in very basic and highly polluting coal fired power stations but producing very cheap electricity.
This cheap electricity is then used to produce cheap solar panels (using Muslim minority Uyghur slave labour also keeps the costs down).
These cheap solar panels are then exported to Australia on another highly polluting ship.
But once in Australia the solar panels can then be used in the "drive towards Net Zero" and "stopping climate change ".

When logically if you kept the coal in Australia, burnt it in a cleaner coal fired power plant then on a global basis you would emit less CO2 as well as providing cheap non intermittent electricity.

I suppose that you could just manufacture the solar panels in Australia, if you like. But it would be idiotic to burn coal in a country with such sunny weather. They should build Concentrated Solar Power stations like Spain has.

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 21:24

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 20:40

Move 1) The UK joins Schengen. This removes passport processing delays altogether. You just get the train.

Move 2) We ban flights from Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels from landing at any UK airport.

Move 3) We form a trilateral partnership with France and Belgium to rewrite the rules around the operation and use of the channel tunnel.

Move 4) That trilateral partnership agrees fair subsidies for EU or UK passport holders to use the service at a significantly lower price, ensuring the cost of operating it is met for the operating companies.

Move 5) Write off any outstanding finance arrangements on the tunnel itself, and do not charge train companies for using it.

Move 6) End the monopoly of Eurostar / LeShuttle.

This is again really stupid and shows you haven't really applied any critical thinking. Nul points for you.

  1. The UK cannot just choose to "join" Schengen. Joining the Schengen zone requires unanimous agreement from all 29 member states. Given that the UK spent the last decade executing Brexit and tightening its borders, the political appetite for a UK government to sign up to a borderless European zone—or for the EU to permit it—is exactly zero.

  2. This is a flagrant violation of international law. Global aviation is governed by strict bilateral Open Skies agreements and the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). If the UK unilaterally banned EU airlines (like Air France and KLM) from landing at Heathrow or Manchester, the EU would immediately trigger retaliatory bans. British Airways and easyJet would instantly be banned from landing anywhere in Europe, completely crippling the UK travel industry and triggering an international trade war. The European Union’s core foundation is the Single Market, which strictly enforces the free movement of services and fierce market competition. Even if we rejoined, under EU Air Transport Single Market rules, any EU-based airline has the absolute legal right to fly any route within the bloc. The UK government could not rejoin the EU and then ban Air France or KLM from flying to London; the European Commission would immediately strike it down as an illegal, anti-competitive breach of EU law.

3 and 4) France and Belgium have absolutely no incentive to do this. Eurostar is already a wildly successful commercial cash cow for them via their majority-state-owned railways, SNCF and SNCB. Why would French and Belgian taxpayers agree to funnel their own tax euros into a "trilateral partnership" specifically designed to subsidise travel costs for British tourists visiting their countries? It is a total diplomatic non-starter.

  1. This is literal state theft. The Channel Tunnel is not owned by the British, French, or Belgian governments. It is owned and operated by Getlink, a publicly traded, private commercial company listed on the stock exchange. Governments cannot just "write off" a private company’s financial arrangements and force them to let trains use their multibillion-pound infrastructure for free. That is called illegal expropriation, and it would trigger multi-billion-pound lawsuits that would bankrupt the Treasury.

  2. This is the ultimate irony. You spent your first five moves arguing that governments should aggressively intervene, ban competition (airlines), fix flat prices, and nationalise infrastructure. Then, in Move 6, you demands "ending the monopoly" to introduce free-market competition. You cannot create a state-controlled, price-capped, heavily subsidised railway system and then expect private competitor train companies to magically appear and compete on the tracks. They would go bankrupt instantly trying to compete against a state-funded price cap.

caringcarer · Yesterday 21:26

I hate it because the UK only produces tiny amounts of pollution compared to many other countries and we won't drill for our own oil yet will pay others to drill then import it to the UK. Madness. It also costs souch money. I think many of the public hate it. Kemi not wrong.

Persephonia1966 · Yesterday 21:32

I think a bigger problem of trying to end any train companies monopoly is that you can only get one train on each section of track at a time. And all the trains on a stretch of track need to coordinate pretty closely. So the free market never fully applies to train services. Within the Eurotunnel this effect is multiplied unless we want to build multiple tunnels under the ocean. Or some sort of Futurama style tube system.

Fortunately while government policies round net zero haven't been perfect, they are a lot more realistic and sensible than those imagined by the fear mongerers and better thought through than "Just make it happen".

Benvenuto · Yesterday 21:42

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 20:10

Thankfully your plans will never come to fruition. People will still fly, they just won't chose the UK as a base

Except there have been a few posts on MN recently by people concerned that they’ve booked holidays in places that are too hot or have wildfires.

That isn’t my “plan” as I’d much rather places weren’t affected by wildfires. Unfortunately it does seem to be this year’s reality.

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 21:52

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 21:24

This is again really stupid and shows you haven't really applied any critical thinking. Nul points for you.

  1. The UK cannot just choose to "join" Schengen. Joining the Schengen zone requires unanimous agreement from all 29 member states. Given that the UK spent the last decade executing Brexit and tightening its borders, the political appetite for a UK government to sign up to a borderless European zone—or for the EU to permit it—is exactly zero.

  2. This is a flagrant violation of international law. Global aviation is governed by strict bilateral Open Skies agreements and the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). If the UK unilaterally banned EU airlines (like Air France and KLM) from landing at Heathrow or Manchester, the EU would immediately trigger retaliatory bans. British Airways and easyJet would instantly be banned from landing anywhere in Europe, completely crippling the UK travel industry and triggering an international trade war. The European Union’s core foundation is the Single Market, which strictly enforces the free movement of services and fierce market competition. Even if we rejoined, under EU Air Transport Single Market rules, any EU-based airline has the absolute legal right to fly any route within the bloc. The UK government could not rejoin the EU and then ban Air France or KLM from flying to London; the European Commission would immediately strike it down as an illegal, anti-competitive breach of EU law.

3 and 4) France and Belgium have absolutely no incentive to do this. Eurostar is already a wildly successful commercial cash cow for them via their majority-state-owned railways, SNCF and SNCB. Why would French and Belgian taxpayers agree to funnel their own tax euros into a "trilateral partnership" specifically designed to subsidise travel costs for British tourists visiting their countries? It is a total diplomatic non-starter.

  1. This is literal state theft. The Channel Tunnel is not owned by the British, French, or Belgian governments. It is owned and operated by Getlink, a publicly traded, private commercial company listed on the stock exchange. Governments cannot just "write off" a private company’s financial arrangements and force them to let trains use their multibillion-pound infrastructure for free. That is called illegal expropriation, and it would trigger multi-billion-pound lawsuits that would bankrupt the Treasury.

  2. This is the ultimate irony. You spent your first five moves arguing that governments should aggressively intervene, ban competition (airlines), fix flat prices, and nationalise infrastructure. Then, in Move 6, you demands "ending the monopoly" to introduce free-market competition. You cannot create a state-controlled, price-capped, heavily subsidised railway system and then expect private competitor train companies to magically appear and compete on the tracks. They would go bankrupt instantly trying to compete against a state-funded price cap.

You are mostly refuting proposals that nobody made.

Nobody suggested that Britain could unilaterally announce Schengen membership, confiscate the Channel Tunnel or selectively ban Air France while preserving identical British Airways flights.

The proposition was explicitly hypothetical and multilateral: if Britain and the relevant European states accepted that aviation demand had to be reduced because of binding climate limits, what legal and economic arrangements could replace short-haul flights?

Yes, joining Schengen would require unanimous consent. That makes it a major diplomatic undertaking. It does not make the proposition logically or legally impossible.

“Political appetite is exactly zero” is simply your prediction that politics can never change.

The claim that EU airlines possess an absolute right to operate every route is also wrong. EU Regulation 1008/2008 specifically allows traffic rights to be restricted for serious environmental reasons, subject to proportionality, non-discrimination and Commission oversight.

France has already used that mechanism. The UK-EU TCA likewise permits non-discriminatory environmental restrictions.

A negotiated reciprocal withdrawal of London–Paris, London–Brussels and London–Amsterdam flights would therefore be very different from Britain arbitrarily excluding foreign airlines. It would require treaty-level agreement and would apply to all operators.

Nor would changing the tunnel’s economics constitute “state theft”. Getlink operates under a concession granted by the British and French governments. Those governments cannot tear it up without consequences, but they can negotiate amended charges, purchase capacity, subsidise access, extend or alter the concession in exchange for consideration, or compensate the company.

Governments renegotiate infrastructure concessions routinely. Nobody proposed forcing Getlink to provide free access.

The supposed contradiction between public subsidy and competition is equally false.

Railways already combine regulated infrastructure, public-service contracts and private operators. Companies can compete to win a contract to operate a defined, fare-capped service. Competition occurs through tendering rather than by allowing several operators to duplicate half-empty trains at unregulated prices.

France, Belgium and the Netherlands would participate only if they judged the benefits worthwhile. Those benefits could include lower transport emissions, more visitors in both directions, higher rail use, reduced airport congestion and additional economic activity. The subsidy could be divided according to passenger origin, infrastructure use or emissions reductions so that no country simply funded British tourists.

You are entitled to argue that this coalition would be politically difficult or expensive. That is credible. But repeatedly calling negotiated policy change “illegal”, “impossible” or “state theft” merely assumes that every present treaty, concession and market arrangement must remain unchanged forever.

The climate does not care that existing commercial arrangements are convenient. If governments eventually conclude that some aviation activity is incompatible with their emissions limits, those arrangements will have to be lawfully amended, regulated, purchased or replaced.

Cleo65 · Yesterday 21:55

No, I really do - it makes my bristles bristle when I even hear those two words...

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:00

Cleo65 · Yesterday 21:55

No, I really do - it makes my bristles bristle when I even hear those two words...

Which two ? “Human” and “Extinction” ?

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:03

Benvenuto · Yesterday 21:42

Except there have been a few posts on MN recently by people concerned that they’ve booked holidays in places that are too hot or have wildfires.

That isn’t my “plan” as I’d much rather places weren’t affected by wildfires. Unfortunately it does seem to be this year’s reality.

They need to stop worrying. Italy was perfectly fine last week.

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:33

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 21:52

You are mostly refuting proposals that nobody made.

Nobody suggested that Britain could unilaterally announce Schengen membership, confiscate the Channel Tunnel or selectively ban Air France while preserving identical British Airways flights.

The proposition was explicitly hypothetical and multilateral: if Britain and the relevant European states accepted that aviation demand had to be reduced because of binding climate limits, what legal and economic arrangements could replace short-haul flights?

Yes, joining Schengen would require unanimous consent. That makes it a major diplomatic undertaking. It does not make the proposition logically or legally impossible.

“Political appetite is exactly zero” is simply your prediction that politics can never change.

The claim that EU airlines possess an absolute right to operate every route is also wrong. EU Regulation 1008/2008 specifically allows traffic rights to be restricted for serious environmental reasons, subject to proportionality, non-discrimination and Commission oversight.

France has already used that mechanism. The UK-EU TCA likewise permits non-discriminatory environmental restrictions.

A negotiated reciprocal withdrawal of London–Paris, London–Brussels and London–Amsterdam flights would therefore be very different from Britain arbitrarily excluding foreign airlines. It would require treaty-level agreement and would apply to all operators.

Nor would changing the tunnel’s economics constitute “state theft”. Getlink operates under a concession granted by the British and French governments. Those governments cannot tear it up without consequences, but they can negotiate amended charges, purchase capacity, subsidise access, extend or alter the concession in exchange for consideration, or compensate the company.

Governments renegotiate infrastructure concessions routinely. Nobody proposed forcing Getlink to provide free access.

The supposed contradiction between public subsidy and competition is equally false.

Railways already combine regulated infrastructure, public-service contracts and private operators. Companies can compete to win a contract to operate a defined, fare-capped service. Competition occurs through tendering rather than by allowing several operators to duplicate half-empty trains at unregulated prices.

France, Belgium and the Netherlands would participate only if they judged the benefits worthwhile. Those benefits could include lower transport emissions, more visitors in both directions, higher rail use, reduced airport congestion and additional economic activity. The subsidy could be divided according to passenger origin, infrastructure use or emissions reductions so that no country simply funded British tourists.

You are entitled to argue that this coalition would be politically difficult or expensive. That is credible. But repeatedly calling negotiated policy change “illegal”, “impossible” or “state theft” merely assumes that every present treaty, concession and market arrangement must remain unchanged forever.

The climate does not care that existing commercial arrangements are convenient. If governments eventually conclude that some aviation activity is incompatible with their emissions limits, those arrangements will have to be lawfully amended, regulated, purchased or replaced.

London to Amsterdam takes 4 hours, and any regional flight (like Manchester to Paris or Edinburgh to Amsterdam) takes 6 to 9 hours by train. The European Commission cannot lawfully approve a ban on those routes under Regulation 1008/2008 because the rail alternative is not legally considered "appropriate or efficient.

When the EU Commission evaluated France's domestic flight ban under Regulation 1008/2008, they strictly limited it to just three routes (Paris-Orly to Bordeaux, Nantes, and Lyon). Because of EU Regulation 1008/2008, the European Commission forced France to exempt all connecting/feeder flights from the ban.

You can change the name of the company running the train via a government tender, but only one train operator can physically fit into the restricted border terminals at St Pancras or Gare du Nord at one time. Tendering a capped space does not increase capacity, it does not lower costs, and it does not create the open-market competition she claimed would lower fares.

The Trade Balance: The UK has a massive outbound tourism deficit with Europe—far more British tourists visit France and the Netherlands than vice versa.

The Reality: Eurostar is already a wildly profitable commercial cash cow for the French (SNCF) and Belgian (SNCB) state railways. She is suggesting that European governments should willingly destroy their own highly profitable airline sectors (Air France/KLM), flood their own crowded rail networks, and spend their own taxpayers' money to heavily subsidise an international train line just to help British tourists get a cheaper holiday. They would never agree to it.

Joining Schengen absolutely fixes the passport bottleneck, but it doesn't magically create a wave of new train operators. The tracks are already legally open to competition right now. The reason Eurostar has a monopoly isn't the passport queues—it's the fact that buying custom fire-safe trains to go under the sea costs half a billion pounds, the private tunnel operator charges astronomical track tolls to every single train, and Eurostar controls the only maintenance depot in the UK. Getting rid of passport checks doesn't build train depots or lower a private company's multi-thousand-pound tunnel tolls.

justasking111 · Yesterday 22:35

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:03

They need to stop worrying. Italy was perfectly fine last week.

Well it isn't now unfortunately

"Sicily and Sardinia battle wildfires as scirocco winds fan flames" https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/sicily-and-sardinia-battle-wildfires-as-scirocco-winds-fan-the-flames.html

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:44

justasking111 · Yesterday 22:35

Well it isn't now unfortunately

"Sicily and Sardinia battle wildfires as scirocco winds fan flames" https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/sicily-and-sardinia-battle-wildfires-as-scirocco-winds-fan-the-flames.html

Most of Italy's fires are caused intentionally..if they weren't starting them, the numbers that happens spontaneously would be lower and easier to maintain

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:46

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:33

London to Amsterdam takes 4 hours, and any regional flight (like Manchester to Paris or Edinburgh to Amsterdam) takes 6 to 9 hours by train. The European Commission cannot lawfully approve a ban on those routes under Regulation 1008/2008 because the rail alternative is not legally considered "appropriate or efficient.

When the EU Commission evaluated France's domestic flight ban under Regulation 1008/2008, they strictly limited it to just three routes (Paris-Orly to Bordeaux, Nantes, and Lyon). Because of EU Regulation 1008/2008, the European Commission forced France to exempt all connecting/feeder flights from the ban.

You can change the name of the company running the train via a government tender, but only one train operator can physically fit into the restricted border terminals at St Pancras or Gare du Nord at one time. Tendering a capped space does not increase capacity, it does not lower costs, and it does not create the open-market competition she claimed would lower fares.

The Trade Balance: The UK has a massive outbound tourism deficit with Europe—far more British tourists visit France and the Netherlands than vice versa.

The Reality: Eurostar is already a wildly profitable commercial cash cow for the French (SNCF) and Belgian (SNCB) state railways. She is suggesting that European governments should willingly destroy their own highly profitable airline sectors (Air France/KLM), flood their own crowded rail networks, and spend their own taxpayers' money to heavily subsidise an international train line just to help British tourists get a cheaper holiday. They would never agree to it.

Joining Schengen absolutely fixes the passport bottleneck, but it doesn't magically create a wave of new train operators. The tracks are already legally open to competition right now. The reason Eurostar has a monopoly isn't the passport queues—it's the fact that buying custom fire-safe trains to go under the sea costs half a billion pounds, the private tunnel operator charges astronomical track tolls to every single train, and Eurostar controls the only maintenance depot in the UK. Getting rid of passport checks doesn't build train depots or lower a private company's multi-thousand-pound tunnel tolls.

The headings and em-dashes absolutely reek of AI. Have you run out of your own ideas ?

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:47

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:46

The headings and em-dashes absolutely reek of AI. Have you run out of your own ideas ?

Failing to address and criteria the points I see. Because you live in fantasy land.

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:47

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:44

Most of Italy's fires are caused intentionally..if they weren't starting them, the numbers that happens spontaneously would be lower and easier to maintain

Climate change doesn’t start wildfires.

It creates the conditions which make them far more serious, far more devastating, and far more deadly.

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:48

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:47

Climate change doesn’t start wildfires.

It creates the conditions which make them far more serious, far more devastating, and far more deadly.

Okay and..if humans weren't setting them off. They could be dealt with a lot easier.

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:48

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:47

Failing to address and criteria the points I see. Because you live in fantasy land.

Caught out and regretting it I see.

Nothing to argue with in your posts. You believe nothing can ever change.

Faced with extinction, anything and everything can and will change.

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:53

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:48

Okay and..if humans weren't setting them off. They could be dealt with a lot easier.

It would be exactly the same. It doesn’t matter what the source of ignition is if the land is parched and tinder dry from prolonged heat stress and absence of rain.

That landscape is turning into literal hell and pyrocumulus faster and more intensely than it otherwise would, regardless of what starts it, and it’s taking your home, your assets, your farm, whatever else is in its path along with it, and that’s happening because climate change created the conditions for any ignition to become a catastrophe instead of an inconvenience.

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:58

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 22:48

Caught out and regretting it I see.

Nothing to argue with in your posts. You believe nothing can ever change.

Faced with extinction, anything and everything can and will change.

No response I see! Logic and arguements escape you! Maybe because you live in fantasy world.

Commercial airline flights globally account for 2.5% of global emissions. Short haul makes up 33% of that. So banning all short haul flights means you only tackle 0.8% of emissions. And that's not even that because there will be emissions from the mode of transport they switch to.

Please think critically.

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 23:05

WhippedCreamPie · Yesterday 22:58

No response I see! Logic and arguements escape you! Maybe because you live in fantasy world.

Commercial airline flights globally account for 2.5% of global emissions. Short haul makes up 33% of that. So banning all short haul flights means you only tackle 0.8% of emissions. And that's not even that because there will be emissions from the mode of transport they switch to.

Please think critically.

I think you know very little about the effects of burning fossil fuels in the upper atmosphere. It’s far more than just the GHG emissions.

You can repeat your bogus propaganda all you want, there’s no point engaging with it.

”oh aviation is only a small part of emissions”

”oh drier, hotter conditions aren’t the reason fires are devastating, it’s people lighting them”

”oh china exists so we can all do nothing”

”oh higher capacity trains are impossible”

”oh things can never change”

”we just have to accept our own doom so corporations can continue to make profits”

Full ostrich-mode. No point turning the titanic, the iceberg can’t be moved eh ?

WhippedCreamPie · Today 00:59

MandingoAteMyBaby · Yesterday 23:05

I think you know very little about the effects of burning fossil fuels in the upper atmosphere. It’s far more than just the GHG emissions.

You can repeat your bogus propaganda all you want, there’s no point engaging with it.

”oh aviation is only a small part of emissions”

”oh drier, hotter conditions aren’t the reason fires are devastating, it’s people lighting them”

”oh china exists so we can all do nothing”

”oh higher capacity trains are impossible”

”oh things can never change”

”we just have to accept our own doom so corporations can continue to make profits”

Full ostrich-mode. No point turning the titanic, the iceberg can’t be moved eh ?

I checked what you said. Commercial airline flights contribute to 3.5% of human caused warming. So short haul flights make around 1% and that's not even accounting for the fact that short-haul flights spend less time in the cold, humid altitudes where persistent contrails form.

Climate change does make the conditions for wildfires worse, but the vast majority are human caused arson.

China emits so much more than us and our impact is tiny.

Turning the volume of short haul flights from flights into Eurostar trains is unfeasible. UK-Europe air travel massively dominates Eurostar capacity.

The Tunnel is not a public asset the governments can just re-engineer. A private company (Getlink) paid for it with private money under a contract that runs until 2086. The contract is very clear on several points:

Getlink operates the Tunnel entirely at its own risk, with no government money or guarantees

It is free to set its own tariffs and commercial policy – normal price-control laws do not apply

The governments are not allowed to intervene in how it runs the business.

The terms of the contract cannot be changed without the prior agreement of both the UK and French governments and Getlink itself

Climate policy or “binding climate limits” is not one of the rare exceptions written into the contract (those are things like war, national defence, or genuine force majeure such as natural disaster). So if the governments tried to force lower access charges or subsidised extra capacity, they would be in breach.

Getlink would take them to arbitration. The governments would then have to pay full compensation for the entire direct loss, including all the profits Getlink would have made for the remaining 60 years of the contract. That is a multi-billion-pound bill that lands on taxpayers.

And even after writing that enormous cheque, you still have the physical bottlenecks – St Pancras can only process a limited number of passengers per hour, and there’s only one UK depot (Temple Mills) that can maintain the special trains needed for the Tunnel. Those limits don’t disappear just because you’ve paid Getlink off.

That’s why this change doesn’t work. It’s not a lack of political will. It’s the actual legal contract protecting a private investment, plus the hard capacity constraints.

How do you expect someone from Aberdeen go to Paris for holiday? What if they have an unwell relative they need to urgently see?