Lucy Letby

[kkloo]

New thread as the last one has filled up.

Well as one of them said in an email - they’re all under suspicion until this is resolved.

It’s rather convenient to have a serial killer to resolve the problems on the unit.

You can have three handovers in a shift, and easy to take them home in your pocket - and easy to do this several times a week over a couple of years, which gradually leads to a bundle.

The doctors offered only coincidence and gut feeling to support their suspicions. This meant the other managers had to ask them for evidence and investigate whether there was actually a problem. Their investigation led to the Royal College of Pediatric and Child Health declaring that the unit needed to remain downgraded, and to the pathologist/ neonatologist's report that poor medical care could have exacerbated natural conditions in the majority of the cases they had been asked to scrutinis

All of the doctors had a duty to report any suspicions around a death to the coroner. The consultants filled in the forms for the coroner themselves, after all the deaths, but they never did this. They just went to their superiors wanting Lucy Letby off the ward without any medical evidence based on their death rate rising and her being present at many of the deaths

Yeah, I get what you are saying. You could be right. Ive wondered sometimes if she was someone who didnt really know what she was doing and in an attempt to cover that up ended up injuring babies without actually meaning to. It would make sense writing ' I am evil ' if that was the case. It would also account for her taking such extreme measures as looking up families on line and taking home notes. So maybe she did kill them and then became paranoid...but not kill them in the psychpathic sadistic sense, but more in a kind of manslaughter type way.

Just in case you aren't aware, Daygloboo, these aren't records that were meant to be filed away, or copies. They were the informal handwritten notes nurses made to hand on information to each other between shifts. Just pieces of paper. The risk was forgetting to put him in confidential waste, bringing them home in your pocket, taking them out to do laundry, and leaving them stashed somewhere

Oh ok. I didnt know that. I thought i read somewhere that she took loads of rotas home.

It's emerged that the maternity and birth notes were not reviewed, the defense were refused access. If any of these babies were well and stable during pregnancy and birth they would not have been in nicu in the first place.

She said that she was very worried that some sort of failings in her care had contributed. That she had missed signs or done something wrong. But then she took the various tests management set her and passed, and the external reviewers noted that there was no cause for her exclusion from the ward except consultants' feelings and coincidence. The baby deaths were reviewed and explained (all but one) and she was told she was coming back on the ward. And then the police investigation opened it all up again.

It's mumsnet, women are never in the wrong. Especially if there's a man to blame somewhere.

That would have been stranger! She was disorganised with her notes but she didn't have anything like that

It's actually quite an MN trope for someone making stupid criticisms of a woman to be taken to task and then start bloating that MN is misandrist, or similar. Happens loads.

Just a thought regarding the " confession" notes, they are like a stream of consciousness, just phrases.
A lot of the negative ones could be prefaced with the thought " people think I'm". a killer, evil, useless etc
It's often missed that she also wrote " I am innocent"
Why is more weight put on the confession than the protestation of innocence?
It's amazing to think that the genius that is a nurse who can use different methods of murder ( including one that's never been seen before) in a busy neonatal unit - including before she has met the baby and when she is on holiday -is also so dense that she keeps a confession......
If you think I'm exaggerating look at some of the many threads that have discussed these things in great detail and read some of the very enlightening articles that have been linked.
I can't know if she's innocent.
But people a lot cleverer than me believe there were no murders.
I don't believe her conviction is safe.

That's because they weren't suspicious deaths. One minute people will say premature babies die so she's not guilty, the next they demand all the non-suspicious natural deaths are also looked into? Why?

Also at least one of the babies that LLwas supposed to have murdred she never met.

Which one? And don't say baby C.

The consultants were clinical leadership - that’s quite different to Agenda for Change/VSM NHS managers (who were the group protecting LL).

She never met baby C before the X-ray was made which the prosecution pathologist used as proof of murder at the trial.

If any of the deaths were suspicious, the consultants really shouldn't have waited months or years to tell anyone. Their job was to do that right away.

That's fair enough, but the point is that the situation was more nuanced than managers protecting Lucy Letby against doctors.

That's not the same as saying she never met the baby. She was there when he died.

“Letby hoards paper”. Letby said she collects paper, (if that’s even a thing), and yet she was meticulous about shredding bank statements and other personal documents. Hmm.

But was accused of attacking him before she met him. I suppose you think that's an understandable slip up in court proceedings?

Sure. I think that's the incident in question, though. The one where Dr Evans had to revise his findings for the incident from murder to wind.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/20/my-kind-of-case-intense-focus-falls-on-lucy-letby-trial-expert-witness

How so?

This is how almost all health professionals think - we were all terrified as junior doctors that we had accidentally hurt someone or missed something - and if someone became unexpectedly unwell, you would often worry about whether it was something you missed. I can easily imagine writing and thinking similar things, if I was taken off the ward following a number of deaths, even if deep down I knew that I had done nothing deliberate

Yeah, that does put a different angle on it.

Was she? I have not seen any evidence that she was meticulous about shredding bank statements

Because two of the doctors were also managers.