Lucy Letby

[kkloo]

New thread as the last one has filled up.

Yes, that seems a fair point, and I can see how any one of us could be a victim of a miscarriage of justice.

Unless they're on Lucy Letby's unit of course...

Those two being exonerated doesn't mean they were actually innocent though. I mean legally yes, but we can all have our own opinions. Otherwise you'd have to say anyone found not guilty or exonerated is definitely innocent-and I know you won't be saying that for the likes of e.g Michael Jackson anytime soon. Even though most of your reasons for thinking he was guilty is "vibes". You can't just pick and choose, either odd behaviour means something or it doesn't. Perhaps it means something only if the defendant is male though...

Well, one kind of assumes that if a person is attending court in the role of ' expert', then the evidence they present is .....by nature of them being supremely knowledgeable in their subject.....correct..So the idea of having to bring in legislation to kind of support this idea is scary. The justice system is beginning to sound a bit ....how can I put this poltely .........shit.

Lucia de Berk is now dead. As is Sally Clarke. And many of the victims of the Post Office scandal.

The problem with miscarriages of justice is that you can’t just ‘oops’ it. Someone’s life is ruined, as Lucy Letby’s is. Had she not challenged those consultants she’d almost certainly be married with children by now. The failures of the judicial system in this case are frankly embarrassing in a developed country that is supposed to be ruled with fairness and integrity. It has made me lose faith in that system and the other systems of our country. That’s why it makes me feel quite ill.

He said-"When you have your blood pressure taken, it will be 120 over 80 for example, with 120 being the arterial pressure and 80 being the venous pressure."

As opposed to systolic/diastolic-this is from the new Chris Morris book.

I think her conviction seems unsafe to me. What I don’t like is this need with people to find a villain and someone pulling the strings. Sometimes miscarriages of justice can occur when everyone believes they’re doing the right thing.

What’s most interesting about that article is that Evans never actually approached Cheshire police direct (as has been stated umpteen times on this thread and others), but via the NCA. I can’t see a single thing wrong with that, and if the NCA had thought there was anything inappropriate about it they could have just not introduced him to the police.

But no doubt the NCA is just another corrupt and/or incompetently managed organisation. What a run of bad luck Letby has had - she’s managed to come up against institutional ineptitude and malintent at every turn.

Not as ill as you would feel if you realised what she did to those babies. Who seem to be forgotten about here whilst people lament her lost fertile years 🙄

That isn’t Letby’s personal bad luck. It is a case which has indeed exposed corruption within the NHS, judicial system, the press and the police.

Are you telling me the NHS aren’t corrupt? They haven’t been responsible for catastrophic failures in maternity care, culminating in a huge scandal that’s been widely reported recently? And you’re telling me the judicial system and police haven’t stitched people up in the recent past? And the press - well, they always behave with integrity of course <hollow laugh>

Letby could be guilty as sin and the above would still hold true. None of that can be laid at her door.

I agree. I am sure the consultants believed she had harmed children, and that the police came to believe it too. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the expert witness's excesses came because they too believed it. It's a sad case all round

Well, indeed. Yet here we are, having learned nothing from the suffering of Sally Clarke, Angela Canning and Trupti Patel.

Interestingly, Dr Evans supported Prof Sir Roy Meadow in his bid to reverse his removal from the GMC’s register.

Ah. That book is, as you have previously identified, riddled with errors.

The NCA didn't advise Chester Police to take Evans on as their only witness (until after Lucy Letby's first arrest). They advised convening a multidisciplinary panel, including an obstetrics among other specialists. So they acted within their remit. Standards for expert witnesses in this country aren't particularly stringent, and the NCA has no authority to change that, as recommended but not actioned back in 2011.

Well I think you are looking at it all wrong. We were all relieved when Jamie Varley was given a WLO as well, do you not understand that either? Or is that OK? Just because you have doubts doesn't mean everyone else does and simply "wants her to be a murderer" it means they're very happy justice was done which is about the best you can hope for after all the suffering that woman has caused.

You can’t see anything wrong with an expert witness touting for business via an informal contact at the NCA? And the NCA contact agreeing to give tell the Cheshire police to give him a call?

Technically it should be the police who reach out to and select expert witnesses in the appropriate fields.

The NCA specifically advised Cheshire police that they needed to select a multidisciplinary team to assess the evidence, which they completely failed to do.

Had that actually happened there wouldn’t have been a trial.

That logic works just the same if she's innocent surely? Why not get rid of them unless they were VERY important to her? She knew how it'd look.

She probably harmed babies in small ways before she moved onto murder so they weren't "failures" to her.

Yes, we agreed this on the last thread. The book needed another edit.

It's a pity but that is a bit garbled. Lee's presumably talking about different pressures in the diastolic phase (blood from veins entering) and systolic phase (blood exiting through arteries) of the cardiac cycle. Blood from the veins enters the heart at very low pressure during the diastolic phase. Hence the difficulty with it crossing to the arteries. The same words and concepts are used in measuring blood pressure.

@Firefly1987 we were all relieved when Jamie Varley got a whole life order as well, or do you not understand that either

While I won’t pretend for a moment to have the same grasp and level of understanding as many on this thread do. I’m not stupid either and would appreciate it if you didn’t feign that my lack of comprehension is the issue here.

With the above being said, I think what you are trying to suggest is that the judicial system cannot be corrupt because Jamie Varley was given a whole life order and therefore it is above reproach and should not be questioned.

I could not disagree more strongly.

Transparency and integrity go hand in hand. An organisation that is acting fairly and honestly should be rigorously examined regularly for precisely that reason: it has nothing to hide. If the LL was throwing up questions that could easily be answered and had a robust and transparent response - not ‘oh well I didn’t think the maternity notes were relevant’, for example - then that would be one thing, but it isn’t.

As for being happy and relieved babies are dead, no, I can’t say I think anything about either Lucy Letby’s case or Jamie Varley’s is a cause for happiness and relief. At best, I hope Varley’s brought some closure to those who knew and loved Preston Davey but it doesn’t bring him back so again, I’m afraid we disagree on that one.

She probably harmed babies in small ways before she moved onto murder so they weren't "failures" to her.

Can you hear yourself? You do sound just like Dewi Evans.

@CornishDaughteroftheDawn she's a serial killer it's not exactly an outlandish theory. There are plenty of times we've heard of her interactions with parents and ways their children (non-indictment) would suddenly deteriorate whenever she was on shift to support this theory.

What are you on about?

My reasons for thinking he was guilty were nothing to do with 'vibes' 😂😂

It was to do with his completely inappropriate obsessive relationships with little boys and the fact that he had multiple accusers who said he sexually assaulted them, along with the fact he had child porn material in his house.

Of course you can pick and choose, don't be silly, there's odd behaviour, most people will have some odd behaviour or habits,, and then there's pathologically odd behaviour that will make most people say wtf, this is highly abnormal behaviour.

If someone had a nurse friend and saw they had handover sheets in their house most people wouldn't think anything of it, if someone had a friend who had inappropriate relationships and sleepovers with kids then most people would be absolutely horrified because the behaviour is completely abnormal except for among pedophiles.

You really come up with the most nonsense arguments and now you're back to making out it's because Letby is a woman....😅

What about the insulin ? I know the tests have question marks over them, but what would be the chance of finding insulin in a baby ? Do you rhink the testers thought they were supposed to find it so they found it ? Wgat would ezplain the resulta.

Many of the tattle lot talk about some random influencer they don't like with almost the same level of vitriol that they talk about people like Lucy Letby. Definitely one of the most toxic places on the internet!

@kkloo everything you listed about those "innocent" nurses is odd behaviour-posing with corpses, saying you gave into your compulsions on days patients died in suspicious circumstances. Everything Letby did. And all people can say is "well she was a hoarder obsessed with her work" (despite her not even working there by that point), and "people are odd"-no, no one was doing what she was doing except for other very suspicious nurses who were banged up for murder for years before being acquitted on technicalities.