AIBU to ask whether you own a Bible?

[BeanQuisine]

Just idle curiosity, really.

We often hear right-wingers insisting "This is a Christian country", whether we're in UK, Oz or the US etc.

So I'm wondering how many of us actually own Bibles, and whether we ever read them. I did read assorted bits of it in my youth, but don't currently own a Bible.

YABU: Whether Mumsnetters own Bibles or not is none of your business.

YANBU: It's a vaguely interesting question.

Have you come across Robert Alter's translations and commentaries? I don't read Hebrew, so find these useful for insights when thinking about authors who did read Hebrew. They're also fascinating for the literary perspective on these texts.

How provocative! He collected them? What, like ornamental frogs!

I'm not sure how we define 'a Christian country'. Is it one with churches in it (a very low bar) or one which aims to practise Christ's teaching? It's astonishing/appalling that the King, the Head of the Church of England doesn't take the teachings of Christ seriously, eg just one thing 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven'.

Do we think he's lying awake at night terrified that he will end up in Hell fire? No, of course not. He doesn't believe a word of it ( and certainly doesn't intend to practise it.)

He's a total hypocrite ( at best) and certainly not a Christian in any but formative ways. How can we pretend to be a Christian Country when even the Head of the Church doesn't practise what Christ preaches. ( Not to mention eg the number of previous monarchs from Elizabeth 1st on and even the Church of England itself who were complicit in slavery. And, still can't manage to give reparations.)

But many are culturally Christian. That is, we celebrate the Christian festivals in one way or another (and many of the Muslim boys at my school celebrate Christmas and are very enthusiastic about their Christmas trees etc!).

Culture (art, history, literature, music, traditions, theatre etc) are very important to me, so I wanted my children to have an understanding of Christian culture (see above about art galleries etc). I'm not a religious believer but I would hate not to have knowledge of Christianity (and other religions, to a lesser degree).

I don't know why there's always a strong rebuttal that this is a Christian country. Practice it or not, officially it remains entrenched in christian values.

Most people in what is now the UK celebrated similar festivals long before they were co-opted and rebranded by Christianity. If you "celebrate" Yule by exchanging presents or suchlike, but pay no heed whatsoever to any explicitly Christian aspect of it, I'd suggest you are no more culturally Christian than you are culturally Pagan.

I find the Bible and how it was put together fascinating.

But even when the stories seem to be historically based, you have to be very careful. The story of the Israelites in Egypt for example, where the pharaoh is named - Rameses the Great, an actual ruler - is not recorded anywhere in Egyptian history. The figure of Joseph, who sounds very plausible, is not mentioned anywhere despite the story claiming he was Pharaoh's right-hand man.

The theory is that while the Hebrews were in Egypt, buildilng the pyramids etc, they were actually migrant workers rather than slaves. And they would be one among many groups of such people employed by the Egyptians. The Bible bigs them up of course, as part of the story of the settlement in Canaan, the promised land, after their 'enslavement'. The story itself is fantastically dramatic, with the parting of the Red Sea at Moses' command etc. Non-Bible readers - you don't know what you're missing!!!

(And to explain what I mean by cultural knowledge: so many Spirituals, sung by the slaves in the cotton plantations of America, make reference to this story and other Bible stories: Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, Joshua Fought the Battle of Jericho, Let My People Go etc etc. How can anyone with an interest in culture cope without knowing the background???)

Probably because "Christian values" is a misnomer. They are simply values shared by most people whether they are Christian or otherwise, so Christianity attempting to monopolise them is rather absurd. It's not like prior to the advent of Christianity humans had no morality and societies had no laws, Christianity simply co-opted a lot of what was already in existence and added it's own bent.

Why do Americans sometimes stray into UK Mumsnet?
In answer I think I own 3, but I'm not a believer, i think i also own a Koran buried somewhere.
We kicked the Pilgrim fathers out because they were religious nutcases, I see no reason to let them back in now.

Yes, I take your point about the Christian festivals having been grafted on to earlier ones. But I still think that the Christian aspects are culturally significant. The story of the Nativity (to take one eg) is - whatever your personal beliefs, and I'm an atheist - incredibly moving, dramatic and resonant. The king who came to serve, born to humble parents (and unmarried mother) in a stable among farm animals; the evil Herod having all the babies murdered; the Magi following the start - which was a symbol of Jesus's mission to the whole of humanity and not just the Jewish people.

All this is marvellous stuff and part of Western culture.

All of my close friends own a Bible and are Christians “birds of a feather” and all that.

Forgot to say I also have 4Bible apps on my phone. Saves carrying heavy Bibles to college and church.

Yes - it's shaped our culture.

Why do people want to get married in churches?

I recommend Philip Larkin's poem 'Church Visiting' where he tries to analyse and express his own residual veneration for churches long after losing any faith he may have had.

He concludes that churches are hallowed, even for non-believers, because over centuries so many people have marked various rites of passage there and because 'so many bones lie around'. I certainly get that feeling when I visit an old church - not a religious feeling but a sense of continuity and community, and a connection with all the people who've trod this earth before me.

🙄

I do but it is the one given to my father at his baptism. Though I went to faith schools I am not at all religious.

Nope. I think my parents have one but they haven't been to church in 20+ years.

The language is archaic to us now - so I'd read it alongside a modern translation.

I know that for Christians the meaning is paramount, so they tend to prefer modern English, but for literature nuts the old version is just unbeatable! I don't mind the thees and thous, and of course, it's always man or mankind, which isn't acceptable now.

I hope you will read it and find something to enjoy in it!

I didn’t have one for all my adult life, but I felt like buying one in 2023. I read it often. Then in 2024, my 21 year old daughter suddenly and unexpectedly passed away. My Bible is always close by now, it brings me some peace, understanding and closure.

We were all given a "Gideon Bible" at primary school in the 70s. I never once looked at it! It is probably in a box in my parent's attic.

Not right now but I know my English in laws do. My Irish mum has a family heirloom one (catholic) that I know will pass on to me one day and I’ll make sure my kids know to take care of it too.

I wouldn't say we are a particularly religious family. Our kids are baptised Catholic but we are more of a mass at Christmas and Easter kind of family. I plan to send them to Catholic school. The children say bedtime prayers but we don't say grace at mealtimes. MyI often think we should make more effort (I used to go to a CoE church regularly and found value in the community) but each Sunday rolls around and we never quite make it...

Anyway, we have several Bibles including two children's Bibles for different age groups, one normal one, and a "reading Bible" set which has the text in normal size print in one column rather than the tiny text on thin paper. I find this one very nice to actually sit and read. It has the verse numbers on the side so they don't interfere with the flow.

I was raised vaguely Christian in a secular-Christmas kind of way. I always believed there should be no religious education in school or only comparative religious studies. However as an adult I've met many people of sincere religious faith including Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Jews. I envy them and would like my children to have that. It's very hard to develop as an adult. I think it's not really possible to understand other religious faiths if you don't have one of your own - it's not the same to just vaguely study comparative religion.

I also agree that we are a Christian country, fairly secular yes, but there is so much of our culture that derives from the Christian faith or is only possible to understand at a rich level with knowledge of the Christian faith and how our predecessors practised it. I don't think this is true for other faiths and I don't think religious pluralism requires us to pretend that all faiths are equally as relevant to this country.

One thing that occurred to me recently - I remember when most hotels used to have a bible? Either on the desk or in a drawer. Doesn’t seem to be a thing now either uk or in the US.

No, but I have a magic 8 ball that I use for day to day guidance

Yes, a few.

I think that's a bit pompous and impractical.

I get that people should value the Bible as a culturally significant part of British/Western/World culture. I think we should know its stories and language in order to understand our history. I don't think that means anyone should have to read it, in the sense that you read the latest Richard Osman. The "beautiful prose" is mostly striking because of its familiarity and repetition. It's a slog to get through all that begatting.

So, honestly, I couldn't tell you if we still have a Bible in the house.

I know I got given a Gideon Bible at school and remember trying to set it alight with a Bunsen burner. Impressively, it would not catch fire which you may put down to Divine intervention or the physical properties of finely packed paper, as you prefer.

My in-laws are religious so we might also still have a hand-me-down children's Bible somewhere, but I am not going to ever thumb through it. I've seen the good bits in the films.

So whilst the Bible is obviously important in the canon of world literature, so are The Origin of Species, the Karma Sutra or Grimm's Fairy Tales and I'm never going to read any of them either. I've got the gist.