AIBU to expect my driveway to be clear of neighbours' things?

[BePinkPeer]

I need the advice of mumsnet on this one, sorry if it's a bit long.
The other day I came home and as I drove onto my driveway I heard an almighty metallic clunk. Slightly panicked I jumped out to see what I'd driven over - the neighbour's kid scooter was left abandonded on my driveway. The neighbour came up and said "Oh, it's (her) DS's scooter", picked it up and said it's ok, the scooter is actually not damaged. I was quite annoyed at this and said I was more worried about my car getting damaged to which she said, your car is fine. And she walked off. I'm not one to choose confrontation, and as the car was in fact fine I just let it go. The next day her husband approached me saying he has a little problem and went on for about 5 minutes at me saying things like "Now can we be all grown up about this. Grown ups come and apologise when they damage something". Turned out the scooter was in fact broken by the car (how was I to know that, I'm not sure). That patronising tone really annoyed me, especially as I'm at least 10 years older than him. He went on how I was only interested in my car and didn't check if the scooter was ok (is that so strange? potential £££ of damages to a vehicle over £50 toy? also, wife said the scooter was fine!) He completely didn't see my point that this is my driveway and I should be able to expect it clear of any objects and the kid simply shouldn't have left it there. I am still seething at his audacity to try and put it on me. Our driveways join up and there is no clear kerb to mark the border of one and the other, however it is clear that what's in front of my garage to the right is mine, what's in front of his and to the left is his. The scooter wasn't even by the garage, it was half way up to my front door.
He said they were in a rush to get home after the kid got a bloody lip in a park and they needed to patch it up. The thing is their front door is before the driveway, so why did it need to be left there? The kids are not tiny btw, they are 7 and 9. And also, how is this even relevant, I'm not a fortune teller and couldn't know that was what happened before I reached my driveway.
Unfortunately the way the estate is designed I don't actually have a clear view of my driveway when I get on it. It is also partly their fault because they park two cars on their side and partly obscure the view. But now I'm not sure what to do, do I need to get out of my car every time I arrive to check the driveway is clear? Would you say this is normal neighbourly thing to expect things to make their way onto my driveway? Or is it safe for me to keep driving as I was and they ABU to expect me to look out for their stuff on my driveway?

Please do not take legal advice from AI

Do people ever read even the reply above their own? so annoying that you have to wade through 3 pages of people saying exactly the same thing. Bloody cancel the cheque all over.

Please ignore, if they say anything else, just reiterate - do not leave things on my drive as they may be broken and it's not my responsibility!!

You’ve said essentially the same thing also though…

Exactly what I was thinking 😳

He’s a cheeky fucker!!

I’d be sending them a fake bill for damage to your car. Might get them to see sense?

In the meantime, drive over any objects they’ve chosen to abandon on your property until they get the message.

Next time you get home sit with your hand on the horn. When twatty ndn comes out ask him to check your drive is clear of his crap .

It works extremely well. You should check the advice against relevant legislation (this is very easy to do).

OP this sounds very much like the situation when "Wee Nick" swore black was white that no-one could see the stonking great motorhome parked in her Mother-in-Law's drive.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/16314113/snp-motorhome-satellite-image-nicola-sturgeon-claim/

We need a diagram OP !!

The scooter shouldn’t be on your driveway. End of. And if a child is on your driveway, they shouldn't be out there unsupervised if they don’t know basic respect. A cat is different but I’d assume a cat would quite possibly move pretty quickly if they saw a car!
Do you have room to put some large planters or something to separate the driveways a bit?

Right.

The scooter shouldn't have been left where it was.

However, you also could've handled this a lot better. It sounds like your only concern at the time of the incident was your car. Which I do understand but I think your tone at the time will have made a lot of difference.

"I'm more worried about my car"

rather than

"oh I'm glad the scooter's not broken, that would've been a shame. I didn't expect anything to be on my drive as it was clear when I left the house and I live alone. I'll check to see if there's any damage to the car and let you know."

The fact that he came over later leads me to guess that his wife was maybe shaken up by the way you spoke to her and he went into protective mode.

A valuable lesson should be learned from this by the child i.e. be more careful about where you leave your things or they could get damaged.

I've had a fair few interactions with parents who go into "mama bear mode" or "protective dad mode" etc and they genuinely become blinkered to anything else other than their child. It's so often the case when we have an aggressive situation in the school playground or when there's some awful drama amongst the families that impacts on the children in school. I'll have meetings with the parents afterwards and their reasoning is always about protecting their child. Even if their words and actions in that moment were completely unacceptable and out of proportion they lose all sense of empathy and reasonableness.

Solutions wise, is there anything that can be put in place to give a border to the two joint driveways? On my parents' estate there are lots of shared driveways, some have rocks or grass or short fences or bushes or shrubs in planters dotted along the division. Just thinking that might give a visual cue to the child that they shouldn't be leaving things on your side.

I'd not escalate anything into neighbour wars and I'd try to make sure relationships stay positive. Our next door neighbours one way are very grumpy and don't like us which makes me feel very judged and anxious if I go in our back garden and they're there. We're having work done in the house at the moment (health & safety related nothing aesthetically pleasing) so we're staying with relatives and she just walked into the house while the electrician and plumber have been there to look at the work in case it effected our joining internal walls! I'd spoken with her before the work started to say what was happening. This is after I had a surprise £3k bill when she had their roof and chimney updated and we ended up having to pay for our half of the chimney and let the scaffolders through our house. I think I've been more than amenable! Our other neighbours along the street are all lovely, we're in touch regularly even while we're not in the house, take in each others post and bins and help out in other ways. This neighbour though is the opposite. It's such a shame and puts a real downer on my life sometimes. Anyway - that's a rather long-winded way of saying do whatever you can to avoid it getting to that point.

Your neighbour is completely in the wrong, there is no excuse for leaving stuff on your drive. However, i am concerned that you didn't see a scooter lying in the drive!

@mybathistoohot Your reply does not support the op at all. You cannot justify driving anywhere, including your driveway, where you can’t see. You said it slopes up at the curb, then down and you can’t see until half way down the drive. So someone could be on the curb (not even on your property) and you could not see them. Stop driving into your driveway this way and sort out better visibility. You should not be driving if you think this is ok and justified. So blood dangerous. Please stop driving.

Ok 🙂

You aren't in the wrong and his kid should not be leaving toys on your driveway. But also learn to look before you drive into your driveway, next time you could kill a cat or a kid.

@HelenaWilson Because kids get out and do stupid things. I’ve had a few kids that were run over in driveways, usually by their own parents, with a parent thinking the other had them, or they were safely contained in the house. It’s really not that rare unfortunately. Little kids are tricky, slippery, and while, ideally, should be supervised, sometimes things just go wrong. It doesn’t mean that it’s okay to run them over as they shouldn’t be in a driveway😳.

Not just little kids either. We had a teenage boy with Down Syndrome in the street where we lived at one point. Although a teenager, he was very small, the size of an average 10yo. He liked to lie in driveways. It was a struggle for his parents and everyone in the street. You had to be very vigilant, he didn’t deserve to be run over as he wasn’t meant to be there!

No idea how it’s legal to have a dwelling with a driveway where there is no visibility when driving! Where I am, if you are deemed to have a ‘blind driveway’ in that you can’t see pedestrians, bikes, cars clearly both ways, then those big mirrors have to be installed to mitigate the blind points for everyone’s safety. It’s not acceptable to just say ‘oh well’ but can’t see, it’s a blind driveway and that’s why I hit the cyclist and broke their back, oh well then’.

"Just to be clear ... I was told it was not damaged. As you know it is hard to see small items from the road. I obviously couldn't have known about your son's injury. Can I suggest that next time you drop me a text as I do not appreciate being lectured on things I couldn't have possibly known about "

Don’t get out to look for their stuff. If they say anything further, say it’s your driveway and it’s up to them to look out for whether their stuff is in your way.
If it’s the twat husband, don’t let him patronise you. Talk over him if necessary.

I need a diagram to understand how you can not see obstructions where you are driving.

Or drive over him if he's had a medical event on her side of the driveway?

If you can’t see a scooter in your drive when reversing, you might also miss a child. I think you need driving lessons.

Thank you for all your replies. They’ve confirmed what I thought, at least most of you agree that it wasn’t my fault in this instance (and my neighbour is a bully) but I am in a vulnerable position not seeing my driveway as I park my car. I’ll just add that a scooter lying flat is flush with the ground, so even if I could see where I was going I would possibly not notice it. I don’t bomb into the drive, in fact it’s really fiddly corner to take so I’ve always thought any people or animals would be able to just move out the way. I’ve never thought about an incapacitated person, which whilst rather unlikely, I suppose it could happen. Same with young children- I wouldn’t leave my child playing on a driveway but I suppose a young child could get out of somebody’s house. I’ll have a think how to mitigate for this.

You don’t know my cat!

More seriously, I think we can all agree that the scooter should not have been left on the OP’s drive, but, like others, I find it difficult to understand how the OP can’t see what’s on her drive before she hits it. A small ball perhaps, but not a scooter. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.