To ask if you’ve worked in private and state education, honestly is private better?

[Eevniur]

Just that really. Is private better for children overall in your experience?

I am conflicted and insight would be so appreciated

Umm. Yes. 😂

With the obvious caveat that there are state schools and state schools and private schools and private schools but very generally yes, private schools are much better.

For what age and why? Does it matter at isn't school for example? What age makes the most differece?

I don't think private school teachers are better, by that I mean I don't think state school teachers are worse.

As a teacher, it was a huge shock moving from private to state. I truly had no idea how hard teaching was on the real chalk face and ran back to private with my tail between my legs sharpish! I have nothing but respect and awe for teachers in the state system.

For the pupils, I think the main difference is probably the quality of the facilities, and generally a calmer atmosphere. The quality of teaching is likely the same, but it's obviously easier to learn in smaller classes with little to no behaviour issues.

Depends, I think. Private classes are smaller. But the teachers are the same ( i.e. some great, some less so). Behaviour is on average better. But I currently work in a state school where behaviour is better than it was in private. Extra-curriculars... thinking about it, pretty much the same. The food was better in private.

This is something dh and I have chatted about quite a bit. He currently works in state but has also worked in private/bordering schools. He thinks it's very child dependant but overall he isn't a fan of private. He says that private kids often struggle with uni etc as they are so used of massive amounts of support. I don't agree with that BTW as ive seen kids do very well after private etc

Hmm, I think it very much depends on the private school. I work across state and private and some private schools work very hard at covering up how rubbish the teaching is, and how few resources they actually have. In the SEND area that I work in, provision and attitudes from staff in private schools are woeful compared to the deal kids get in our local state schools. However the smaller classes are the area that makes a big difference to their outcomes. The teachers are all very lovely, have different stresses than those in the state sector but would mostly be eaten alive in a state school classroom.

Yep. The one thing that is the same in both is the quality of teachers and quality of teaching. If anything, I think state is slightly better in this respect.

What private school does offer is better conditions to teach in (smaller classes, more planning time, better behaviour, more selective intake which makes teaching easier etc.)

And of course for parents and children, better facilities, better networking, more opportunities for things like public speaking, sport, music etc. Better behaviour, a demographic of children with more homogenous values, culture of attainment due to the intake etc.

If the private school is selective for academic ability, students aren’t held back by students who struggle as much whereas in a state school in non-grammar areas, which is most of the country, (including my own county), high-ability children will only experience setting in core subjects. Every year in the state secondary I teach, I teach top-set science students who are indistinguishable in ability from students at selective private schools. Equally if not more outstanding.

Data is available on this aspect

On average more private school kids struggle with uni than state kids because some have been too spoon fed and not independent enough socially as well as academic

but on average they are much more likely to get to university ( for kids of the same standard at 11, private educated are twice as likely to get to uni ) so a greater percentage of private educated kids get to the end of university successfully

personal observation - school dependent but much more extra curricular opportunities in the private schools

I had a friend who moved from state to private. They said it was like semi retirement the teaching was so much easier. But also said they had got lazy because there were more challenges and were a better teacher in state. They said class sizes, were better behavior better, and resources better. But kids much less fun and interesting, less challenging in general behaviorally that was a benefit but in terms of challenging ideas and concepts the whole class missed out as the private kids were more accepting of whatever they were told without demanding proof or questioning the reasons. So if you want a child to thrive in many of the professions where rule following is key private works. Entrepreneurs and artists are more likely to come from state.

Ive taught in both. I top up my kid's state school experience with tutors. Not all of the time though

Having grown up in a private school and now working with multiple schools it’s a mixed bag. The current focus on removing any responsibility from children and trust really bothers me.
I had a bit of culture shock when I went to uni though private school is a closed bubble and that’s also an issue.

dd1 is at a grammar we love and teachers are quite vocal that state schools meaning battling behaviour and not truly teaching. They comment often to the girls they appreciate how focused they are and enjoy teaching them. That said dd2 is at a state secondary and my goodness the level of rescuing in some subjects is phenomenal. Dd2 is now really into history and politics really anything to do with ethics because the teaching is so in depth and engaging I’m really impressed.

I’ve worked in both. Private school kids generally have WAY more confidence than state school children. This was the first thing that struck me when I made the switch.
I’m in Scotland and expectations of behaviour and uniform are unbelievably higher in private school. I cannot stress that enough.

My son attends a good state school, according to Ofsted outstanding. The behaviour there is fine, in the higher sets. As soon as you have non-setted subjects things become more mixed but his school is fairly on it. We impress upon him the importance of effort and remaining in the highest sets as it is far easier to learn and less distractions.

I work across six secondaries currently in a mental health role and previously in two different secondaries. The behaviour management and teaching quality varies hugely, but again if your children are high achieving they will have a better and less disrupted experience than if they need more support. Our second son will start next year hopefully at the same school as our eldest. He isn’t as academic and if needed we will tutor to get him to where he needs to be. If that remains problematic we will look to privately educate.

Im not a teacher but have worked in one private school and several state.

The private had nicer facilities, food and just felt lovely. There seemed more time for sport, music, drama and art too. I think it would have been a lovely chikdhood to be there. . But I was surprised how little they seemed to worry about pupil progress, i think pupils coasted a bit. Some of the teaching was poorer than you'd see in a state. The smaller classes compensate for a lot.

The states ive been in have generally been good ones so that makes a difference. They feel factory like in comparison. Crowded and rushed and behaviour was worse but teaching was consistent in comparison and i really felt they pushed pupils more.

I work in a state school and for 6th form we get a lot of private pupils joining, as at 6th form, state school is generally no different than private as classes are smaller and no behaviour issues plus very high expectations.

@Eevniur I agree the private school kids are more confident than the state pupils in my class, but they are a long way behind in independence and thinking for themselves. Lots of the private pupils have been very much spoon fed so dont have the independent resilience the state pupils have. Its something we are having to teach them.

I worked in both and would say private is better. Teaching qualify in general isn’t any better, but I worked in a prep and children had specialist teachers for French and music from reception and PE from nursery age, and I’d say these teachers were better than the average primary teacher is at teaching French/music/PE. (Some individuals teaching in state schools are obviously great at these subjects but very few will be excellent at all, so it’s unlikely a child will get 7 years of excellent teaching in these subjects in the state sector.) we also had specialists for maths, English and science in ks2. I know as a teacher I am better at one of these subjects than the others, and colleagues were better at theirs, so children were getting better teaching than if we followed the class teacher model state primaries follow.

Behaviour was great with almost no disruption.

Food far better! Better pastoral support than in most states too just because there were more staff available, and it was something the school prided itself on.

All that said, is it worth £20k+ year year? I’m not sure. We can’t afford it for our own kids. My daughter is doing well at the local state.

I am going to say you can have average or not so great teachers in private and your child will be fine.

For the following reasons:
Regulation is built into the private school day as the default.

• Large open green spaces offer space to breathe.
• Smaller class sizes and more personalised attention
• Longer, sit down lunches - for actual rest and digest to happen
• Sport sport and more sport every day to foster team spirit and nervous system regulation
• The arts are still available as options and offer creative expression

Therefore children are more likely to be in a regulated state and ready to learn, and less likely to be in a reactive state, that interrupts learning.

But, there can be terrible hierarchies based on money/percieved wealth/old money/new
money depending on what school you are in and what place in the pecking order you occupy.

I couldn’t have afforded private school but my children go to one of the best state schools in the country. I have had to get tutors for my older one to get him through GCSE’s because he needs more personal attention than a state school can give him.

As a state school teacher, if you were in my class, you had a very high chance of exceeding your target grades and doing extremely well. This is because of my experience, knowledge and extra work as an examiner. I would ‘know’ my students. But my actually working life was like a train - we were all going in one direction and there was no chance to breathe, divert or stop. Go go go - and it’s a horrible working environment and exhausting.

I am conflicted with private school education because I have a moral and social view that it entrenches social division. However, in acknowledged hypocrisy, if I had the money I would have traded being the uncomfortableness of being the ‘poor family’ with the wider opportunities private school can provide.

Don't confuse the effects of private schooling with the effects of selective intake. Private schools are all selective by social class and income, as well as sometimes by academic ability.
e.g. Confident children - this comes from having confident middle-class parents, not private schooling.

I have worked in both. The honest answer is it depends.

Teachers are not better or worse in either. Facilities are often better in private but not always. Behaviour can be better in some ways and depending on the school can be worse in others. Some private schools have massive issues with bullying and snobbery. Not all. Some state schools have massive issues with high needs and disruptive behaviour. Not all.

If you are trying to weigh up if the investment worth it that is an intensely personal equation partially based on what sort of adult you want you child to become. Also on where you live, what your local state schools are like, what your income is like and what your local private schools are like. No one can tell you which is better as it is too personal.

If it helps I have chosen state.

State schools vary a great deal. A small primary in a leafy suburb is going to be a very different experience from a massive secondary with a mixed clientele.

I haven't worked in private schools, but what did come as an enormous shock to me was the difference between different state schools. Before working in schools I always assumed that the main difference between good and bad schools is the catchment, and it often is, in terms of the sought after schools/headline results.

But within that, the leadership and teaching jn schools varies enormously, and some schools in challenging areas are doing amazing things for disadvantaged students, whereas some of the schools in "good" areas are coasting and relying on the fact that the students/families would do well wherever they went.

Also the way some heads really care about the students and some care most about the school. I.e. all the initiatives and recommendations to students are in the interests of the school (and therefore get the school a good reputation) rather than individual students.

If your child is genuinely bright enough to be in the top set, state school is fine. If they are less bright, choose private to avoid lower-set behaviour issues in state schools.
If money is tight, prioritise private secondary - most state primaries are fine, especially if small, and being rural or semi-rural helps.

For sixth form, I think a state college (FE or 6th form) is better than a school sixth form, for gaining independence and social mixing prior to Uni. It is good for young people to mix with others of all social classes and abilities, which you get at FE.

Of course the answer is ‘it depends’.

But going on academics and quality of teaching where I live, the private schools exceed state schools by far. Results enormously better at GCSE and A-level in private. The difference is huge - and that’s before you get to all the other stuff like ‘better facilities’.

I know teachers in both. State schools teachers are largely dealing with so much challenging behaviour and say it’s often crowd control other than teaching. Whereas the private school teachers (in my experience) are often experts in their field, have a true passion for their subject and remain at the same schools for years.

Again, this is all based on my own personal experience and knowledge - and it’s also down to where I live. Ultimately, there are of course crappy private schools and brilliant state schools….but in my area, the truth is that you get what you pay for. It’s a very unfair system, but that’s the honest truth - sorry!

@Eevniur I agree with these thoughts.

I’ve worked briefly in private and mostly in state. While there are good and less good teachers in any school, getting good outcomes in state does require the teacher to have really good pedagogy. In the private sector, I saw a lot more ‘stand at the front and lecture’ which teachers could get away with to an extent because on average the children had stronger literacy, better prior knowledge etc, so weaker teaching practice was less exposed. That did not mean, however, that some children weren’t silently struggling or couldn’t have done better than they did. I’m generalising a bit and there were definitely good teachers in private too, but what I’m saying is that is was nowhere near as necessary to be good to survive/thrive as a teacher.

Where private does win out is resourcing and (often but not always) behaviour. Your child would likely be in a smaller class, possibly with children who are more focused, although some state schools have excellent behaviour management and top sets can be as good as, if not better than, those in private.

Your child may also have more opportunity for enrichment.

I really think it totally depends on (a) what your child is like and (b) what the particular state and private schools are like.

I have taught in two schools of both. Facilities and opportunities were significantly better in private. On average (there were obviously some great teachers in private and some less great in state) teaching was significantly better in state.