To ask if you’ve worked in private and state education, honestly is private better?

[Eevniur]

Just that really. Is private better for children overall in your experience?

I am conflicted and insight would be so appreciated

I have taught in both. I feel that teaching quality can be better in state, but this is generally achieved by SLT running an intense regime of observations and 'learning walks' that are used to manage out weaker teachers. You generally find this sort of system in 'outstanding' schools desperate to maintain their grading. I never found this level of oversight in private.
There can be quite a bit of overlap in quality between the best state schools and the more mediocre private schools, to be honest. I taught in a mid-level day school where teaching and behaviour were both quite a bit poorer than my previous state school.

When I started teaching a long time ago, there were people on my course who didn’t secure a job in a state school. They did secure one in a private school.

A good state schools is better than a poor private school. There are generally more options for sport and music and other extra curricular stuff at private, and classes will be smaller. But it will always come down to the particular school and the particular child. Not every child will thrive in every school, and what works well for one child might not be as great for the next one.

Dd24 teaches a STEM subject at a private senior school. She loves the interaction with the kids. They speak with their teachers respectfully. They broke up for summer at the start of the month, 3 weeks ahead of local state schools and most of her kids took time to say how they had enjoyed her classes, and looked forwards to being in her class next year.
She does not enjoy - the long days 8.30 til 6 most days, and 8.30 to 1 on Saturday (got to keep the boarders busy and out of mischief) though that helps families a lot with no separate wrap around needed for most - and they can be dropped into the day houses early for prep if needed. She also doesn't really like the accent on sport... but that can vary school to school. Her school is not academically selective but heavy on sporting and arts bursaries, meaning that in the past academic expectations were low, but that is changing.

She does enjoy the emphasis on health and wellbeing - only water to drink, even with lunch, no "tuck shop" pop available on the whole site. Proper meals with an hour for lunch.

Behaviour is wonderful at her school. But to be honest, any unacceptable behaviour results in expulsion - or "being asked to call your parents to make alternative arrangements" - can't just do that in State school.

I taught in state.

my kids started in state but I moved them to private after they were due to be in a year 3/4 combined class of 40.

yes it very much depends.

many preps start languages, sport music early so my dc had French lessons from year 3.

there’s state schools that offer what my dc had though. Not near me.

I've worked in both - it's impossible quantity "better", very dependent on both the school and the child.

Assuming you're talking nice but unknown day schools, and not big famous public schools such as Eton / Harrow / Stowe, which are a totally different kettle of fish, then I would say this is the gist of it (purely my experience, others may disagree) -

Private school pros - smaller classes, usually much better facilities, usually a big focus on sport which particularly suits boys (not a pro if your child isn't sporty mind!), better behaviour / less disruption of learning, less chance of an easily led child falling in with the "wrong crowd", better extra curriculars (although some state schools are great at this but it's very variable

State school pros - honestly on the whole better quality of teaching because the oversight is so much better, on the whole bright kids who do well at state school seem to find the transition to university MUCH easier than their private school peers because they've not been spoon fed anywhere near as much, many universities also now give private school students higher offers so it's easier to get into a good uni from a state school, for significant SEN needs the support is much better in state schools

If it were me (and I had endless pots of money to choose), assuming your local state school is good (look at the recent results, not just Ofsted, and the progress 8 score - anything above 0 means that children do better than expected based on their predictions from their y6 SATs, anything below 0 means they do worse. Very close to 0 is fine), I would send an academic or significantly SEN child to a good state school. I would send a "middle of the road" child or one with a mild SEN needs such as dyslexia, who might be left behind in a big state school class, to private school. If money was tighter I would send to state school and get a maths and English tutor from the outset, not wait until they were struggling to get the tutor.

I made this move too and the state school was much better at managing behaviour and the kids were smarter (on average) too. But then the state school had to he good at managing behaviour and had had a lot of practice and the state school had a lot more kids in the classes, and the private school kids were more compliant with homework but their attendance was worse (loads of term time holidays and constant private health appointments...)

State schools are also often skint but can't go bust.

The only thing I can definitely say is that private school lunch is way better!

I think the class sizes alone would make a big difference. My sister was a secondary school teacher and left a few years ago due to burnout.

One thing that she was clear about was that when there was a sickness bug and there were only 20 in the class, it was a massively different experience. Same children and teacher, but much calmer and more teaching rather than crowd control.

OP, if you can say a little more about age, stage and situation maybe posters can give more specific advice.

I mean, we chose private for primary for good reasons and it worked out well. And state for secondary and so far it's working out well. Obviously other parents have made other decisions and the only real issue is if you can afford what you choose including unexpected increases and what the plan B would be if the child was unhappy. Some areas like mine have a lot of choices and options and other areas don't.

I don't have experience of working in private school, but those I know who were privately educated did struggle a bit. My friend at uni said teachers would help write essays because her school was so results focused. She even had her personal statement written for her. She did ok in her degree but had absolutely zero critical thinking skills and only ever wanted to do the minimum - so would ask for feedback but then refuse to do any more work to addresss the feedback, because she was really just looking for reassurance that what she had already done was ok.

I did once work with someone who had taught privately too. She was very able but she did tell me that she hadn't needed a teaching degree to teach, and that staff at the school had encouraged the older students to be inappropriate toward her as a young teacher/would encourage them to drink etc. This was about 15 years ago she would have taught though. I do wonder about whether safeguarding is as good at private schools. My understanding is they don't have the same level of regulation from Ofsted? And I also wonder about how you as a parent can judge the quality of the education when they don't have to follow a curriculum in the same way (?)

State = How to conform to be a good worker-drone for society
Private = How to create your own generational wealth

I have worked in both for over 20 years and could not go back to state now I am used to private. Teaching quality varies at both but these days it is no longer true that you can get away with being a bad teacher in a private school. With VAT and parents often micro managing their children’s education far more (they are paying for a service of course!) poor teachers get hounded out quicker than they used to be 20 years ago.

The biggest differences are class size, general ethos, and facilities (although I have seen some private schools that are literally falling down). Most private schools have smaller classes meaning more attention for each child (particularly for that lost, well behaved, middle of the road child who often gets ignored in a class of 34). The general ethos is about learning and achieving in a private school and kids are generally not embarrassed to be seen putting their hand up in class or handing their work in on time or winning a prize because most kids are doing the same. In the state schools I’ve taught at this can be a source of taunting or at the very least those who are keen in class are the minority and certainly not going to be the cool kids. For teenagers particularly, peer pressure is a powerful force, and at most private schools I’ve seen, the peer pressure is to behave and do well at school. Not to say there are no behaviour issues in private schools, they just tend to be much lower level, anything more gets dealt with quickly and parents are asked to remove their child from the school if it is severe enough (I have seen this on a few occasions).

As a teacher, despite being paid better in state I would now always pick private as I just don’t have the energy to deal with the behaviour issues anymore. As a parent picking between state and private it would depend on the school (there are some great state schools and some appalling private schools) but also my child. A quiet, sensitive middle ability child has the potential to benefit a lot from being in a (good) private school. Whereas a confident, high achieving child will probably do well in either. Interestingly, many state schools have far better learning support departments than some of the private schools I know.

What nonsense.

There’s private just because it can be private and there’s private selective. Massive difference. I can assure you in a top selective school there very much is a great focus on each individual child. When I speak to my kids teachers I feel as if I’m speaking to their parent! That’s how well the teachers know the kids and the very tiny details about them and their personalities. They challenge their strengths and support all the weaker areas. I often feel as if it’s tailored to my child.

also people compare state to private and just solely look at the academics.
It isn’t only about that. It’s teachers who have the time for you as a parent, who know your child really well, children going to school without being affected by violent and disruptive children, a ‘community’ of the school where everyone is on the same page, a wealth of opportunities and facilities, the experience that your child has where they spend the best part of everyday of their life for over a decade. Surely that is what is equally important?

I’ve worked on supply in both and went to a state primary school and private girls high school. Whereas my sister went to a state secondary. My opinion is the same as pops - it depends.

In primary, I think private is not as good. In my personal experience I think the teachers can coast much more easily and it makes them lazier, less inclined to differentiate and the children can be more emotionally deprived and don’t have much downtime - they definitely appear much much entitled and bratty.

In secondary though it’s not so clear. Personally as a bit of a socially awkward, nerdy and bookish teenager I was much more comfortable and confident in an all girls setting, and I would have not been happy in a state secondary like my sister was, and so I’m grateful for that. But there is still a lot of downsides, including a lot of cliquey behaviour. They weren’t hugely bothered about my emotional development and my additional needs and difficult home life was ignored as academically I was still very good.

Boys schools in particular can really highlight sex based stereotypes and the bullying, homophobia and misogyny I observed from the boys who I knew from her, in retrospect, was horrific.

Yes ot is. Thats why i said it must be a lovely childhood. Surely thats what people want.

The truth is there is a lot of variation between schools in each sector so its hard to compare.

I’m sceptical that more artists are likely to come from state. To make it in an artistic field it helps to be independently wealthy so you can keep on going through the lean years, and also to have connections. Hence why so many successful actors are privately educated. Not saying that’s the way it should be, just that’s how it seems to be.

Also (as someone who was state educated but had a lot of privately educated friends) the idea that privately educated kids just accept what they’re told doesn’t chime at all with my experience. I’d say it was the reverse, at university I was more likely to take the tutors as authorities, whereas my privately educated friends had a lot of social confidence and much less likely to be deferential.

My DC went to a state primary school. DC1 and DC2 were fine there but DC3 was unlucky and was in a class with some very tricky children. We moved him to private school in year 3 for the rest of primary school (he's now back in the state sector at a good secondary school).

He had a good experience at the private school, but not really any better than DC1 and DC2 got for free! Yes the class size was smaller, but I don't think that matters all that much with a good teacher and a bright kid.

So IME it depends on not only the school but even the individual class.

I have worked in both.

The quality of teaching is the same, if not better in state schools, as teachers are held to account more/checked up on more regularly.

But the facilities and opportunities in a private school can’t be matched. Also smaller class sizes so fewer behaviour problems, SEN, EAL children which means the teacher can focus more on actual teaching, not just behaviour management.

I think pretty much as others have said.

Facilities and class sizes are better in private.

Teaching is frequently better in state.

SEN is mostly badly provided for equally in both. The difference is often that private school parents are able to afford extra support for their SEN children. But it's still not provided by the school.

I've worked in private where things happened and staff (either their behaviour or the quality of their teaching) were tolerated, in a way that would never be accepted in state. Parents may not have been aware but the students mostly all knew.

There are state schools that massively out perform private (there are 2 in my area) but also sink state schools.

Hopefully the bad private schools are the ones that are closing in this recent flurry.

I have taught secondary aged students GCSE and A levels for over 20 years. 13 years in a state school, 2 years in a state 6th Form College and 6 years on an independent school. I found resources so much better in the independent sector. If I wanted something as HoD I could pretty much put in an order for it. In the state sector even though HoD id have a much smaller budget. I found the students at independent school more polite and smaller classes. I also preferred I could set more homework (essay questions) each lesson as I only had 12 tomark. I actually liked all of the students I taught over all the years except 1 boy who was very openly racist and sexist and would try to cause fights on lessons. He later ended up in prison. The pressures are different in state school behaviour is not as good. In independent schools there is more pressure to deliver top grades. I once had a class of 16 for A level. 8 students got an A or A, 1 student B and the rest C. After results announced each member of staff had to go in individually to see Head. I'll was told the 1 student who got the C grade had rather spoiled the results! Not a mention of high number of A and A, that was just expected.

No idea why some is in bold.

Because you tried putting more than one A*, so it interpreted the texts between the stars as bold.

I worked in state (non teaching) but obviously friends who have worked in both.
I remember one who was upset as several of her students hadn’t been put in for their GCSE as the school knew they wouldn’t get a C. They hadn’t been told as well. She was leaving so didn’t know what the outcome was. I can’t imagine parents would be impressed with the money they had spent.
One other had removed his daughter from a very well known private school as she’d had some emotional problems and basically they just wanted her to go. He was shocked how much support she got in state and was made to feel like a burden in private.

I taught state FE in the UK and no major issues and enjoyed most of it, later I taught at private school in Barcelona where mixed ability classes caused issues and some really awful spoilt brats. I lasted a few years over there as some kids couldnt be criticised or disciplined without major tantrums and parents being involved.