AIBU to question using spinster and old maid for single women

[Chocolatelabsarebest]

AIBU to wonder why some people feel that it is ok to use the word “spinster” and “old maid” to refer to unmarried women ? What is wrong with the word “single “?
I thought those words had fallen out of use!! So why have I seen these words used with reference to Ann Widdicombe?

I dunno, Widdecombe seemed to lean into the whole "spinster" identity. And she once said she would sue anyone who suggested she wasn't an actual "maid" (virgin). She was one of the last of a dying breed. I think she'd have also liked it just fine if she'd been called a battleaxe etc. Bless her.

I have never heard anyone use it around ot under 50

I didn’t know that - thank you!

I suppose that’s my point. The word “spinster” has negative connotations to me, unlike “bachelor” - which to me has connotations of being free, unencumbered by responsibility, So to use the word spinster to describe a single woman is derogatory and misogynistic. unless, as some posters have said, you use it to describe yourself in an ironic and self- deprecating way.
And somehow some people think it’s ok to use it to describe an older single woman, when they would not use it to refer to someone younger.

Adam Boulton even said AW was “very much a spinster “ - what does that even mean???

I think it means that in her belief system, you're married or you're single - no in-between. No serial monogamy, premarital sex etc. She lived like most people did prior to about 1970 - when there were very different ways of life for married and unmarried women and you couldn't just dip in and out of relationships. You needed different terms for the different categories of people because they were different categories. She was relic of a world where marriage, sex and children went together and you didn't get to pick which you wanted. Where women could only commit to a career if there weren't going to be children. "Spinsters" don't exist in the same way now because women who commit to celibacy are...well, not extinct, but very rare.

That’s just blatantly untrue. No one would refer to someone in a relationship as a spinster just because they used to be single (and so a spinster). The implication is you would cease to be a spinster once in a relationship.

I think it’s different to single though, as spinster does imply (to me) that you’ve never had a long term relationship, rather than just being, say, between relationships.

And don’t most marriage certificates still say Bachelor and Spinster?

I have never heard anyone say spinster or old maid except in old Hollywood films.

It is the usual misogynist view that women's only value is given to them by men and that their only purpose in life is to be a partner to a man and a mother to children...

Those incredibly old fashioned terms that should not be used.

''@TrishM80
So the guy had to apologise for accurate use of the English language?''

No he had to apologise for being a pathetic little misogynist making disparaging comments about a murdered woman.

I really don’t care

Does it not become exhausting to find offence in every thing under the sun? I really couldn't care a toss.

Who cares? Not everyone wants to meet someone. I couldn’t care less if someone called me a spinster.

Spinster means single woman... with a subtext of age. Maid means young single woman - hence old maid also being used. Ann Widdecombe preferred "most definitely a spinster" (heard her use it at a literary talk once)

Bachelor means single man. Old bachelor adds age and "spinster" connotations of marriage no longer being an option.

Some men get peeved at the "eternal bachelor" subtext... which has nothing to do with age.

Ann Widdicombe was an independent woman who made her own independent way in the world and from a generation where that was empowered move. There wasn't the legal equality in place in her youth.

It's an appropriate word that she was comfortable with.

In the 19th and much of the 20th century, being a Spinster was undesirable in a culture of financial restrictions, and value in being married young and raising a family. DM is a few years older and feared being "left on the shelf" by 21.
Ironically younger women are increasingly rejecting coupling up and having families as a societal expectation and a "spinster" lifestyle is increasingly popular.

It's a word that has potential to be reclaimed for it's positive attributes of independence.

Why not just say single? That is enough.

@BogRollBOGOF When women got married they were described as a “spinster of this parish” and it was a normal term as bachelor was. Old maid is a bit derogatory but old is frequently used in every generation to describe someone not young! Both for men and women. As AW had died in awful circumstances, keeping your mouth shut is the best policy.

Excellent post. I agree.
It's really difficult for anybody under a certain age to get this concept.
Like no sex outside of marriage. At all.

She really was a spinster. She called herself such.

By her own choice.

So I'm not going to condemn anybody who refers to her as such.

It's not really on though to refer it to every old unmarried woman who's died.

She lived more independently than a lot of women who would call themselves feminist too.
But that's another subject.

"Maid" doesn't just mean single though. The real meaning of maid or maiden is a virgin, someone who has never had sex. So an Old Maid is technically not just an older, unmarried woman but one who has remained a virgin.

She used them because people relentlessly mocked her about her single status. A bit like when overweight people describe themselves as fatties to get in there before someone else does. The people claiming people say it because Ann would have wanted it are disingenuous.

Isn't it written on a marriage certificate, spinster/bachelor?
Unless its changed. I burnt my first marriage certificate so cant check 😉

This is me too! But apparently I shouldn't because a spinster is a woman (single) under the age of 35. Once past that age she becomes a thornback (or old maid/maiden).

I don’t know why people get so het up about this - I very much doubt Ann Widdecome would have objected to being called a spinster. You could talk of an “elderly Miss” - a phrase that is untranslatable in many languages, where you become the equivalent if “Mrs” as soon as you are an adult - it’s just the quirks of language and how it develops. I don’t think spinster is perjorative - it doesn’t have the positive associations of “bachelor”, but it’s not insulting.

He is a c**t and imagine if someone had said that about his sister/aunt/niece. That's how he remembers this woman who was murdered. Her life choices were not for him to comment on. It's like we went back to the 70s

Because it doesn’t matter whether she would have minded or approved. It’s not a nice way to talk about women and it’s really insulting to use that language. We should have moved on from that nonsense.

🤣

It is insulting! I have only ever heard it when someone’s saying “omg I don’t want to die an old spinster”. It’s very much used as an insult and is completely different from bachelor. Interesting that the TV show is called The Bachelorette for the female version and not The Spinster for example.