To have kicked an old man’s dog?

[itsme189]

This morning I was walking my 2 very small elderly dogs on lead in the woods near me where it’s nice and cool for them.

they love people but they don’t love when dogs run up to them and get all in their face, valid I wouldn’t like that either. If a dog on or off lead just walks past or gives them a quick sniff they don’t mind. I always tell people not to let their dogs come right up to them.
Theyve never bitten just growled and I just don’t want to risk anything.

there was an old man walking a large greyhound type dog off lead and he’s miles away from it it runs at us very fast so I stick my leg in front of my dogs and the dog doesn’t stop runs straight into my leg. He then excitedly throws his foot on top of my smallest dog he squeals in pain and my other dog starts growling and showing teeth.

so I picked them up and then the big dogs starts jumping up at me to get to my dogs so I kick it away.

Old man then starts screaming at me for “abusing” his friendly dog and a lady walking passed then said to him “I saw her kick the dog”

and now I don’t know if I did too much but I was so overwhelmed and worried it would become a fight and there’s no way my old boys would do well in that situation. To make it worse the lady made a post about it in our local Facebook group (luckily no pictures) and everyone’s saying awful things but they only know one side!

For the record the dog was not hurt didn’t even squeal!

And if I was the other person you would be getting a vets bill from me for a check that my dog didn't have any serious injuries. Dogs should be under control at all times, it could have been a child it jumped on if a child had picked up the dog and of course the op didn't know if the dog was friendly with people she had only seen it go for her dogs and jump at her it could easily have bitten her, greyhounds are hunting dogs remember, and some have had a rough life with bad owners.

If someone is holding their dog up off the ground to get it away from another dog who is jumping up at them, that person is well within their rights to kick it and defend themselves/the dog.

clearly the owner had zero control of their dog was jumping up at someone.

everyone saying the OP shouldn’t have kicked the dog, I presume you’d be fine if this dog jumped up at a child?!

Agreed. I don’t think you did anything wrong op.

I had an incident where a dog attacked mine, I kicked the dog to get it off. I reported the dog attack to the police, including me needing to kick it and there was nothing but understanding. They interviewed the owner and cautioned him. I’m in the UK.

If you put your leg out a greyhound will run into it. It might well have just run past you and it sounds like you actually created the whole problem.

My greyhound is very patient with other dogs and also not particularly interested.

I love dogs, all animals. But if my pet was approached like this with a dog off the lead, then no, not totally unreasonable. While the man's dog may be lovely, he doesn't understand dogs at all - because he's not appreciating that yours may not be.

You were responsible with your dogs on a lead, he wasn't. That's it.

This is exactly why you shouldn’t pick your dogs up. It makes you the target and the other dog starts jumping up at you.

So she should just leave her dogs on the ground to get jumped on/stood on? And possibly bite the dog in defence?!

FML, only on Mumsnet could you be in the wrong for moving your dog away out of harm!

Kind of a roundabout way of giving an opinion but my view is that if someone steps over my threshold with evil intent (a burglar, say) that person leaves their rights on the doorstep and must take whatever danger arises as a legitimate consequence of their own action.

Similarly, if a dog who is unknown to me starts jumping either on or at me, the lackadaisical owner must accept that I will use any method available to me to defend myself from potential harm. If that means it gets kicked, struck or in any way walloped, again that is a direct consequence of the owner's own action.

Sorry but no. If your dog has such bad recall that you can't stop them from running up to other dogs on leads, then your dog shouldn't be off lead.

The dog didn't attack. Please re-read. So many assumptions in your post. The dog did not attack and there was no child! A non attacking excitable dog does not deserve a kicking. Grey area of animal cruelty. The man was obviously was also in the wrong.

What was she supposed to do? Situation was escalating and she needed to separate 3 dogs and only has 2 arms. I'm usually the first to say if you kicked my dog, she'd be the least of your worries but if the other dog is out of control, you do what you have to.

Too many dogs badly trained off lead. That dog should not have come up to you. It was uncontrolled by the owner and it was jumping up on you. That's awful. I would have been going batshit at the owner for not controlling his dog.

YANBU. The old man is for not training his dog. You just did what you had to.

I have needed to kick dogs on a handful of occasions when jumping up against me or DS in the park. The owners do generally disagree with this approach!

Picking up a dog when it's being attacked or has another dog wanting to play (as was the case here), is the most dangerous thing you can do for yourself or another dog. Ditto with picking up a child. It makes the 'target' in your arms a million times more attractive to the animal. I get that in instances where you're uncertain it can happen, but hopefully you can learn from this and not leave yourself so vulnerable, OP. The fact OP and many posters on this thread seems not to understand basic dog behaviour is quite shocking to me - particularly as I recognise so many of the names as dog owners from other threads!

Ultimately, OP escalated the situation. Calm and level-headed is the best way to handle these issues. If it happens you do the following: head toward the owner, keeping their dog away from your own dog(s), and give the dog back to them. Make it easy on them. By walking away, or kicking out, or doing anything 'dramatic' people inadvertently escalate a situation that they should be defusing. In the heat of the moment, it can be hard to think sensibly, but part of being a responsible dog owner is knowing how to react in these situations.

Separately, OP, I would consider muzzling your dogs and/or not allowing interactions with other dogs. If you know they can be reactive in a certain situation, you should consider it for their own safety - because it'll be your (little) dogs that are worse off if they snap one day at the wrong dog just having a 'quick' friendly sniff. I've seen so many times how fast these quick interactions escalate from a growl into an attack - you're better off muzzling your dog and not allowing interactions then allowing any. Because no person can hand on heart say their dog won't bite if they know it's reactive, which your dogs clearly are. Protect your dogs by being proactive.

People tend to be doubly cautious of dogs on leads that are muzzled - and with dogs that aren't 100% friendly, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

In my opinion a dog should not be off a lead if you can't recall it, for the safety of the dog if nothing else. I made that mistake one evening when on an empty beach my dog was sniffing a bloody Seal, I managed to grab her and I know full well she would have come off worse if it had bit her. They can have just as much fun on an extending lead.

What do people think the jumping up dog, trying to get to the other two little dogs, was doing? It was aggressive. Our little cavapoo got chased, and thrown by a greyhound. Big dogs shouldn't 'play' with little dogs. Its not safe at all.

You have my sympathy OP.

We witnessed a large, unsupervised bully type dog attack our tiny shitzhu who was on his harness and lead held by myself. It just came from nowhere in our local country park. It physically picked him up and shook him like a rag doll.
DS1 in the heat of the moment stupidly kicked the bully so hard it landed several feet away. He was only an early teenager at the time but played rugby and was strong. It could have killed DS but luckily, the bull dog gave up the attack and was uninjured, however his owner took a metal dog lead and started to attack DS with it.
He was stopped by passersby.
Our dog had 30 stitches. DS lost a lot of confidence.

It put us off going to country parks.

If dogs don't have recall they shouldn't be off lead and if they are reactive they should be muzzled.

Should the OP have waited until the greyhound bit one of her dogs for growling at it?
have you considered OP was also ensuring her dogs didn’t bite the greyhound?

either way, a dog being walked off lead should have good recall, that’s a basic! It shouldn’t be jumping all over other dogs or up at people!

in which case I'm guessing you would pay for a vets bill for the dog who was injured in the first place, if it was you in this situation?

How many people are missing the information here that her dogs are ELDERLY.

A greyhound rushing ELDERLY dogs is an unsocialised, unstable animal.

I would have done the same to be honest. I have one elderly and one younger dog but both hate it when other, usually bigger dogs get all in their grill! The man should have called his dog back when he could see it was upsetting your dogs and put it on a lead. I’ve been a dog owner for at least 30 years and am still sick of the irresponsible owners who say that their dog “is just playing”. Well, read the room (footpath, woods) and if you can see that someone has a dog/dogs on lead then it’s very likely that they don’t want to play with your boisterous pooch. I avoid woods as this is where dogs are most likely off lead. I walked the perimeter of my local golf course this morning before the golfers got started as it was nice and shady.
It was also wrong for that woman to be posting on Facebook about you but it’s a space for miserable people to complain and get some attention in my experience 🙄

You acted in the heat of the moment, so I wouldn’t beat yourself up. I’m pretty sure you aren’t supposed to pick dogs up, so possibly do some research on what would be a better option.

The other dog shouldn’t be off lead if he can’t call it back though. I hate that.

You did what you had to, @OP .

As someone else said upthread, some day the greyhound is going to encounter the wrong animal.

My late husband worked on a well-known country estate many years ago. One of the guests had a lapdog which kept harassing the gun dogs.

The head gamekeeper warned the said guest as politely as he could that the lapdog was problematic and was endangering itself. The response was "Oh, he's just playing."

One day at the end of a shoot, the lapdog growled at the gamekeeper's dog. The latter ignored it. The gamekeeper asked the owner to leash the dog. "He's fine. He's only playing."

The gamekeeper's dog didn't react. The other dog continued to yip and began to jump at the gun dog.

Again, it was ignored. Again the owner was asked to leash the dog and laughed it off.

The dog went right up to the gamekeeper's dog and snarled at it. The gamekeeper's dog shook it by the neck and then dropped it. One dead dog and one upset owner.

The estate owner's sympathies were not with the owner of the yappy dog.

This greyhound was not giving a " quick friendly sniff"
It's an unstable energy showing total lack of respect for elderly dogs.
This is actually not typical dog behaviour.
It's dangerous.

And your suggestion that the OP muzzle her dogs is totally unfounded.
OPs dogs were the ones who reacted naturally to unnatural behaviour from the greyhound.