To have kicked an old man’s dog?

[itsme189]

This morning I was walking my 2 very small elderly dogs on lead in the woods near me where it’s nice and cool for them.

they love people but they don’t love when dogs run up to them and get all in their face, valid I wouldn’t like that either. If a dog on or off lead just walks past or gives them a quick sniff they don’t mind. I always tell people not to let their dogs come right up to them.
Theyve never bitten just growled and I just don’t want to risk anything.

there was an old man walking a large greyhound type dog off lead and he’s miles away from it it runs at us very fast so I stick my leg in front of my dogs and the dog doesn’t stop runs straight into my leg. He then excitedly throws his foot on top of my smallest dog he squeals in pain and my other dog starts growling and showing teeth.

so I picked them up and then the big dogs starts jumping up at me to get to my dogs so I kick it away.

Old man then starts screaming at me for “abusing” his friendly dog and a lady walking passed then said to him “I saw her kick the dog”

and now I don’t know if I did too much but I was so overwhelmed and worried it would become a fight and there’s no way my old boys would do well in that situation. To make it worse the lady made a post about it in our local Facebook group (luckily no pictures) and everyone’s saying awful things but they only know one side!

For the record the dog was not hurt didn’t even squeal!

It’s hardly violence. Dogs don’t think twice about showing or being shown “violence” when something they don’t want happens. Women shouldn’t either.

I admit I'm not a dog owner op, but I'm totally on your side. The only dogs who should be off lead in a public place are those with brilliant recall. I am a bit sick of certain dog owners who think because they love their dog and wouldn't mind him/ her in there face everyone else should. My oldest DD is terrified of dogs and having dogs she doesn't know come bounding up to her isn't going to help. I also know someone who is severely allergic to dogs and it really limits his life. All because certain dog owners either can't or are too selfish to control their dogs.

Yeah but dog wasn't attacking op. We'll have to disagree. I'm not one for advocating kicking non aggressive dogs.

Not sure about kicking the greyhound, was it jumping up aggressively or playfully?

If a dog jumps up the advice is to put your knee out so it bumps in to the dogs chest. However you were acting in the moment abd we

He was bruising and scratching her. Was she just supposed to stand there waiting patiently till he got bored?

Or perhaps until the dog had actually bitten her? Drawn blood? I’m not sure what this evidence of ‘aggression’ is that some posters are saying OP should have waited for before protecting herself. I absolutely despair at the garbage some people will talk in their efforts to blame the victims of crap dog ownership.

I really think that so many people don’t understand dogs. You need to relax and let them sort it out, it is safer for the dogs! If you are relaxed they will be relaxed. A dog that kills other dogs is a rare beast and you would be very unlucky .

If the passing woman was taken aback and said op was kicking and being aggressive then concerned to the extent she posted it on sm, at the same time op saying it wasn't actually attacking etc., then the picture you have in your head with a huge big beast dog scratching bruising her pinning her down with ops arms full of her little dogs 😂 is a little wrong and reality is a bit more nuanced than that.
The assertion that one should kick a non aggressive dog is wrong. Some posters are the pitch fork yielding type.

I think it’s deeply unhelpful to focus on whether or not the dog was being aggressive. It seems to me that many posters are doing that because they want to have a go at the OP and saying ‘but the dog wasn’t being aggressive’ is an easy way to do that. I think whatever the dog did, they’d excuse it as not aggressive, just wanting to play etc.

The OP should not have to tolerate being jumped up at , with the dog’s paws latching on to her, which can easily cause at least minor injury and damage to clothing not to mention alarm at what might happen next, what the dog might do to the smaller dogs if he got to them. I can’t believe I’m actually having to spell this out. She’d tried standing in the way and it had escalated and the owner wasn’t even there.

I come back to my example of a dog jumping up and giving me a series of small bruises on my arm just from its claws naturally latching on. No doubt these posters would say he wasn’t being aggressive, just wanted to play, but it’s completely unacceptable and I should not be expected to put up with it. In my case the owner was right there, calling it off (not very effectively mind) so I expected it to stop any second therefore I kind of just waited, but if it had carried on any longer, or the owner hadn’t been there as in the OP, damn right I would have been justified in kicking to get it off. We’re not talking about animal abuse, it’s a kick to get the dog off.

I think some people are really losing their minds. And as for questioning the OP’s account because someone else posted on Facebook about it so therefore the OP must have done something wrong, well, is that really a serious point?

Sorry I meant to quote @Kariksalomna , although my points apply to a number of posts.

Why do you keep pointing out that the man was old?

Of course you can? If a large, out of control dog is repeatedly jumping on you that's exactly what you should do.

Since you don't know what the passing woman's usual behaviour is like, you really cannot judge her behaviour to be benign on this occasion. She might be the sort of busybody who just enjoys creating fuss and upsetting strangers, for all you know. Since she did not offer to help OP when the dog jumped at her,scratching and bruising her, and put its paws onto her shoulders from behind, nor even come over to the OP to ask if she and her dogs were OK after there was no danger from the dog any more, she is clearly not a person I'd want to rely on for anything at all except troublemaking.

And if she was so shocked, was she really too scared to berate in person at the time the five foot tall female OP whose arms were full of dogs? Obviously it was far better to vilify OP in a facebook post from the safety of her home later on.

Because it made him incapable of controlling his off-lead dog or coming after it at any speed, perhaps? Or maybe because his age was a factor in his lack of control.

You're completely missing the point, I've got dogs, love dogs, hate idiot owners who let them run up to people, and badly trained dogs who rush up to other dogs.

But the intent of this dog is really crucial here because an excited dog 'wanting to play' (urgh!) and aggressive dog wanting to attack are two completely different things and need to be dealt with differently for OPs safety and for her dogs safety.. neither is acceptable, but it is a fact of being a dog owner unfortunately, it is very rare to have a loose dog attack yours, it will almost always be a badly trained dog pushing it's luck/wanting to play/being a knob.

Rather than taking people's word for it, why not just do a basic google search of what happens when you lift your small dog up when an excitable dog approaches you.. it WILL jump up you, jump around, bark at you, snap even, it's not aggression, it's excitement, your dogs may also go into a state of excitement, fear or aggression, which riles them all up even more, it's all a massive game. OP panicked and didn't know what to do, but she inadvertently escalated the excitement, which resulted in her getting clawed and her having to kick the dog to get rid of it.

If she had stood her ground, and physically blocked the dog, then walked her dogs away the loose dog may have tried to follow but would have lost interest, I've walked my dogs back to the owner before to expedite the process. By staying still OP let the interaction escalate, one of her dogs got hurt by rough play then she picked them up which then caused chaos.

Honestly, this has happened to me hundreds of times, I've had dogs for 30 years and my dog now is reactive of other dogs for exactly the reason above, it pisses me off every time, but I have to do this at least once a week, moving away breaks the focus of the loose dog, especially if it is being called back, and shouting at it / physically blocking it is a secondary option which I rarely have to use. I've never had to hurt an excited dog to get it to go away.

If I may paraphrase what you’ve said there in quite a long post, essentially it’s OP’s fault for picking up her dogs which in your book was the wrong thing to do? So that caused the dog to jump up, and therefore OP doesn’t get to kick the dog. Is that roughly it?

I disagree with raking over every little detail of what she did to make it her fault. She reacted instinctively and reasonably imo, first seeking to block, then when the dog continued and trod on one of her dogs, picked them up, then only resorting to the kick when the dog jumped up with it’s paws all over her. I’m struggling to see at what point she could have walked away, the dog must have been upon her very quickly.

You can disagree of course, but I’d appreciate not being told I’ve ‘completely missed the point’ when I’m addressing the question of whether OP was justified in kicking, and expressing the view that whether we label the dog’s behaviour as aggressive or playful doesn’t change the position that OP acted instinctively and reasonably. That’s all very much on the point, thanks.

If I may paraphrase what you’ve said there in quite a long post, essentially it’s OP’s fault for picking up her dogs which in your book was the wrong thing to do? So that caused the dog to jump up, and therefore OP doesn’t get to kick the dog. Is that roughly it?

None of it is OPs fault, the fault lies with the shitty owner.. the escalation of the loose dogs behaviour was caused by OPs response.

If she hadn't have panicked and picked her dogs up, the dog wouldn't have jumped up her, she wouldn't have had to kick it to get it off. Cause and effect.

Unfortunately you have missed the point of what I said, because you are still saying if the dog was aggressive or playing it would be the same end result.. it wouldn't, this dog was boisterous and playing, not aggressive.. even OP herself has said that, it really is not up for dispute.

If it was aggressive I would say she was justified in kicking it, all day long, but it wasn't it was excited, and a different response from her would have had a completely different outcome, which was entirely with her control (and safer for her and her dogs too)

People shouldn't have to understand dogs! They are domestic animals that people choose to own. Fine for the owners but other people should have the right not to be accosted by dogs while going about their lawful business.

Are you ok?? Her dogs were on a lead. How dogs should be. And even if this particular area allows off lead walking, your dog must have good recall to be off lead. The greyhound, friendly or not, was not being controlled. The greyhound should be the one in a private field if it cannot control itself around other dogs. Jumping all over someone, jumping up and getting into other dogs faces when they a giving a clear indication they do not like it by growling shows the greyhound doesn’t have appropriate training to be off lead. The op has every right to walk her dogs on lead in the wood. She’s taking appropriate measures to keep her dogs away from others knowing their nature. Any normal person would have picked up their dogs and protected them/themselves with reasonable force if a big dog started running up to you, jumping at you and the owner was not near enough to control the situation. In those instances you have seconds to decide. She didn’t know the nature of the dog.

if this is somewhere you regularly walk and it’s small and local enough you feel like you might come across the same person again or people may recognise you as the person in the post, I would comment with your side of the story. If not, just forget about it. You were in the right as your dogs were next to you on leads and his dog wasn’t and had no recall.

No you should not have kicked the friendly dog and I’m not surprised those who witnessed it are pissed off.

You don't know what ops behavior is like either... That's how it goes with these posts. Noone witnessed the thing here so you go by someone's version of events.

Yeah but op is also a dog owner 😂

Whose dogs accosted nobody. And since they were being kept on the lead, were extremely unlikely to do so.

Unfortunately did the right thing. Any dog that causes alarm or distress means the owner is legally breaking the dangerous dogs act. If they cannot control their dog vocally then you have every right to defend your dogs space. If their dog is off lead they are automatically in the wrong if not under verbal control