To have kicked an old man’s dog?

[itsme189]

This morning I was walking my 2 very small elderly dogs on lead in the woods near me where it’s nice and cool for them.

they love people but they don’t love when dogs run up to them and get all in their face, valid I wouldn’t like that either. If a dog on or off lead just walks past or gives them a quick sniff they don’t mind. I always tell people not to let their dogs come right up to them.
Theyve never bitten just growled and I just don’t want to risk anything.

there was an old man walking a large greyhound type dog off lead and he’s miles away from it it runs at us very fast so I stick my leg in front of my dogs and the dog doesn’t stop runs straight into my leg. He then excitedly throws his foot on top of my smallest dog he squeals in pain and my other dog starts growling and showing teeth.

so I picked them up and then the big dogs starts jumping up at me to get to my dogs so I kick it away.

Old man then starts screaming at me for “abusing” his friendly dog and a lady walking passed then said to him “I saw her kick the dog”

and now I don’t know if I did too much but I was so overwhelmed and worried it would become a fight and there’s no way my old boys would do well in that situation. To make it worse the lady made a post about it in our local Facebook group (luckily no pictures) and everyone’s saying awful things but they only know one side!

For the record the dog was not hurt didn’t even squeal!

No, just that mine had bitten hers. I did let my dog go once the dog fight began as they were both big dogs so I didn't want to find myself in the middle of it. There were plenty of third parties around to confirm that mine was on a lead and hers wasn't, but she didn't try to claim it was.

You defended your dogs and yourself. Anything that could have happened to the dog is the fault of the feckless owner.

It wasn't showing dangerous behaviors though, I think you're forgetting that is key.

The root cause of the problem is the
man letting his dog run far away and up to people/other dogs. Everything that happens after that is on him for being a crap owner. Especially an owner who says “he’s friendly” like it’s a get out of jail card.

That was in reply to someone who wrote about "attacked by one that’s off lead and out of control."

But it did happen: her dog was injured. That's because the other dog, off lead and out of control, attacked it. Bounding up and stamping on a small elderly dog IS attacking it, from the point of view of that elderly dog and its owner.

I agree that her knowing and doing everything that has been suggested except carrying a means of defence such as a spare lead or a spray-can of compressed air (which would be hard to use while also holding two dogs up out of reach of the aggressor-dog) should have been a help, but clearly none of them worked against this canine menacing her and her dogs. She was herself damaged by the greyhound, and her dog already had been.

It's hard to see why kicking it was so unforgivable: what other means of defence had she left?

I think most people would regard a large dog jumping on a person from behind and putting its paws on her shoulders as dangerous. I know I would.

A properly socialised dog has been trained not to jump up people or approach other dogs. They shouldn’t be off lead otherwise. I have dogs and I’m so fed up of other peoples untrained dogs being allowed to run around off lead, especially when they can’t even be recalled properly, and people thinking I’m supposed to be fine with it or find it cute.

But the dog did injure me and my dogs how long was I supposed to allow that to continue?

Anyway thanks everyone I do hear what people are saying about picking them up but I panicked in the moment and my dog was injured on the ground and I was worried he was going to get more injured or my other dog was going to escalate the situation to try and defend his brother who was hurt

in future I will use suggestions here which have been helpful I have ordered the corrective spray. (I think the one I ordered just makes a loud noise)

As explained kicking the dog was my last resort and would never ever be something I would do if I didn’t feel like I had to. Maybe if I had the treats and spray I wouldn’t have needed to. I also wouldn’t have needed to if the man had control of his dog but that’s by the by.

Please stop beating yourself up - you acted on instinct with a situation you didn’t start - I would have probably done the same!

When a dog is on a lead, it should not be approached by an off lead Dog. Why do you think her dogs weren’t socialised?
To be approached by a bigger dog went on a lead causes a small dog stress and they react to protect themselves. It doesn’t mean they’re not socialised.

How is it her fault that another dog owner let their dog off the lead, it was out of control and attacked her dogs?!

Agree with these posts on the dog.

I absolutely agree with you OP. I have a dog who doesn’t like others always on a lead. If I have said my dog doesn’t like others and you have then allowed your dog to still come up to mine I am going to defend my animal. If you can’t control your dog it shouldn’t be off lead.

nope nope and nope. If your dog has no recall then it shouldn’t be off the lead. If your dog goes bounding towards other dogs it shouldn’t be off the lead.

I agree regarding dogs on lead - I have a bouncy dog who loves to play and I will put him on lead at the first sight of another dog because it isn’t worth the hassle of trying to mind read how the other dog owner feels about it. That said, it would take a lot for me to kick another dog, I encounter them so frequently I can see what is play vs attack.

I can only assume you went into fight vs flight mode - you have to ask yourself were you irritated and reacting on that basis (in which case it was definitely wrong), or whether you were genuinely fearful for yourself (in which case that’s your threshold crossed and while others might minimise it, the body reacts quite strongly and instinctively in fear settings).

I think of it as...if it was a horse the dog jumped at, what would it do - A)Bolt B)kick.

That's their natural response to t treat.
A dog jumping for any reason is not under control. end of.

I would have probably done the same in that situation - having been bitten by a dog as a kid.

Its not like she walked up to the dog and kicked it. There is a significant difference.

And I doubt the guy would report it, as then the WHOLE situation will be explained and he will not come off well.

I saw her reply after and acknowledged exactly that. I don’t know why she didn’t provide more detail in the first post, but for me the latest post changed things significantly and she didn’t have much choice.

I voted you were unreasonable to write such a goady thread title.

My dog , now age 9, has been well trained and socialised from being a puppy. He is very happy meeting and interacting, both onlead and offlead with other calm, polite dogs. However, he will correct (growling, snapping etc) at any uncontrolled dog that rushes at or jumps on him. He is not afraid of them, he is irritated by them and lets them know they need to back-off.

Yeah to that but the dog still shouldn't have been kicked. .. Owner of the dog is wrong regarding off lead, but also op is wrong regarding actually showing violence to the dog. R people actually defending that the dog should have been kicked? Not oh but it jumped on op, poor op was surprised I'd do the same, itsfight flight mode etc etc, but the simple question, should the dog be kicked in this scenario when it wasn't being aggressive as in showing teeth, barking wanting to bite?

Agreed and to add, a dog that bounds up to and bounces on a dog that clearly does not want to interact with it, is not well socialised dog. It is a dog that has no manners. Something like the kind of man that approaches a woman in a bar and refuses to take no for an answer.

Kariksalomna
R people actually defending that the dog should have been kicked?

Yes, I am. It needed to be prevented from its course of behaviour, and no other deterrent action had worked. It was causing physical harm to someone who was unable to hit it with a spare lead or blast it with compressed air (which it seems would be perfectly acceptable and which have been advocated) to deter it from its continuing assault on her, even if she'd had such weapons with her, because her arms were full of her small, frightened, angry, elderly dogs against whom it had trespassed and one of which it had injured. At that point kicking it is self-defence even if it were not defence of a small and injured animal. And it worked: the aggressor went away.

In any case, since it had leaped on her and had its front paws on her shoulder from behind at the time, any kick she was able to take at it would have had about a 30-45cm travel to it, which is hardly going to do actual damage.

It was not actually biting; big deal. If it had knocked her to the ground, as it seems perfectly likely that it might have done, can you guarantee that she would not have broken a bone in her fall, burdened as she was with two small dogs which meant she had no arm free?

No, sorry not sorry, I think OP matters rather more than the dog in this instance.

My dog is much the same. How she responds to a dog depends entirely on how it approaches her.

She has unfortunately been chased by large dogs three times while their owners failed to call them off. One time she launched herself into a lake to escape and she would never choose to swim. Fortunately she ultimately ran back to me for help so I didn't lose her, but that is one of the reasons she is now rarely off lead.

She is also wary of and sometimes reactive to large black dogs because two of the chasing incidents were a large black lurcher (same one) and there have been multiple big "friendly" black labradors that have hurt her by bouncing on her and barreling her over.

She was absolutely fine with other dogs prior to these incidents but now it is very difficult to turn things around. It is a work in progress that is very much not helped when it happens again and again.

I used to own a big dog and never understood the way owners of little dogs reacted to him given he was a harmless doofus. Having a small dog has been eye opening.

Agreed. A relative nearly lost her foot after being knocked over by a large dog which 'meant no harm'.