AIBU to object to school asking parents to cover trip shortfall?

[BingoBongoBusted]

So, I coughed up the required £23 for my child to go the school's "celebration day" for all year 5 and 6 children.
They have now said there is a shortfall, as not everyone had paid, and another £182.50 is required for the trip to happen, asking if any parents would like to pay more.
Pupil Premium families get half paid anyway, so those of us that have already paid in full are essentially being asked if we'd like to pay a bit more to fund the freeloaders who haven't paid.
AIBU to think this is outrageous???
I get that it's a trip in the school day,contributions have to be voluntary and unlike residentials either everyone goes or it doesn't happen, irrespective of who has/hasn't paid, but I thought charging extra to cover the non-payers wasn't allowed, which is what this very much feels like.

Most decent parents are not going to deny their kids a school trip that most of the others are going on, if they can spare the cash -

surely only the heartless assholes that could stump up the money are going to let their kids miss out ??
and is that is the case, I’d throw some cash in for the kids going without - it’s not their fault -

i was the free school meal kid who :
dreaded non uniform day
waved friends off on the buses going on the school trips
stayed at home when friends went shopping and into town to spend their pocket money ( I had none)

my single mum was on benefits in the poverty trap - she couldn’t earn enough as a manual worker to take us off benefits -

she did smoke - bought tobacco off locals that were selling the tax free bought on holidays -
it was only the only thing she could do -

don’t begrudge these kids your spare cash - it’s not much and the kids themselves are definitely affected by living in poverty in many ways -

think yourself lucky you are in a position to pay for your kids and turn your nose up at the families who can’t …..

Your underlying judgement is clear enough -
parents probably smoke, so fuck it, kids can go without, so what ??

you like data ? Looks at the data re smoking habits in lower socioeconomic/ groups ….

it’s complex -

Not "probably" smoke. 1 in 4 smoke. I stated the statistics.

People in low socioeconomical groups are far more likely to smoke because they make bad choices. Smoking is never a good choice. They are choices none-the-less.

Yes, poor people make bad choices - ???

you clearly have no clue re the bio - social - psychological factors that underpin human behaviors -

I‘m not going to attempt to educate you -

but do yourself a favour and educate yourself -

https://ash.org.uk/uploads/HIRP-Low-income-households.pdf?v=1652365229

Not poor people. Smoker make poor decisions. In what circumstances are you suggesting that smoking is a good decision? I can't think of any.

I get that it is hard when it was your mum that prioritised fags over your pocket money but that isn't my fault.

I get that it is hard when it was your mum that prioritised fags over your pocket money but that isn't my fault.

I'm sure you thought this was supposed to be a zinger but it comes across as incredibly callous. If only your parents prioritised raising someone able to see beyond their end of their own nose instead of a myopic misanthrope.

Haha. Personal insults. Did I touch a nerve?

That is fucking awful them guilt tripping you like that

This. Everyone should pay for their own kids - not expect others to.

A personal one? No. No one in my family smokes, I grew up more privileged than most of the children in my class and I remain satisfactorily comfortable in my adult life with very few money worries.

Did you touch the nerve of coming across as a really unpleasant person who appears to lack most of the moral qualities required to be a positive presence in society? Yes.

I think the majority of people aren't miffed by those who are genuinely struggling or are on PP. I think it's more the grifters who think they can get away with it and want everything for free.

Our PTA covered an experience within school recently as there was a shortfall of £100 for it.

So thinking people should prioritise supporting their kids over spending money smoking is a really unpleasant view in your mind? God help us all. If was in Government I would ban smoking completely - there is no positive from it all.

There is nothing more illogical than hearing someone on the school claiming to be broke while effectively burning £20 notes in their hand.

Anyway that is probably enough derailment on smoking. You'll never persuade me that it is responsible to buy cigarettes over paying for school trips. My mind is fixed on that.

It’s things like this ‘fundamentally disagree that school should treat children equally.’ That are reprehensible.

And if you think everyone else doesn’t read this:
I get that it is hard when it was your mum that prioritised fags over your pocket money but that isn't my fault.

and realise you absolutely intended to cause some personal offence then you must think we all came down in the last shower.

You’re an unpleasant person. The words are on the page.

I pay but I do hate those trips.

It’s not a trip. My youngest school rather than go to the space centre decided to bring it to them. A hot inflatable thing they has to sit in that projected the sky.

Id of rather spent £25/£30 for the actual experience of the entire space centre.

They already have a full time forest school teacher or I’m sure they would that as well.

Instead the only trips they have done off site are to the same secondary school over and over again walking there to watch the drama students preform.

Well probably the primary school children are neither smoking or buying the cigarettes so punishing them for their parents’ decisions is still really sad.

I am not in the habit of judging children who have no control over their lives.

So, by your own admission, 75% of them don't smoke... but it's still just more convenient to denounce them ALL homogenously as 'that kind of people who claim to be poor but also spend a lot of money on smoking - so they're clearly lying'?

I don't think kids should be treated equally. I'm happy that the government support pupil premium which gives more support to some kids than others. That's not treating them equally its adjusting resource to meet need. If you think that's reprehensible that is on you. In secondary we set children based on ability we don't treat them equally. Children who are good at sport get lots of extra competitions and events than those who don't. Every child should have personal encouragement that is individual to them to achieve their best. I don't think we can have a race to the bottom education system where just because not everyone can afford every aspect means we just don't bother. Some parents don't prioritise shoes doesn't means shoes should be banned in schools to equalize.

I’ve already made the point and you ignored it, or didn’t have the faculties to understand it, but in none of your examples do schools treat children differently based on the wealth of their parents.

In the situation we are discussing, the only differential is the amount of free cash the parent has.

Try again?

I have no idea what you think I have admitted to. We have the most generous welfare support in the world. Per Keir Starmer - child poverty has been massively reduced - but schools see no evidence of this - the money is going somewhere. At some point parents need to take accountability for how they spend the money they are given.

I stand by anyone who smokes is not as poor as they claim. Smoking is a very expensive lifestyle choice people make. According to the ONS the average smoker spends £3,000 a year on fags - that would pay for a lot of school trips.

I just came here to say f you for referring to everyone on Pupil Premium as a freeloader because I am currently off work for a year due to unpredictable illness and my daughter will receive pupil premium within that time. I would pay if I could. I’m not a freeloader. I’ve actually been a tax payer (and full school trip payer) my entire adult life. Sorry my illness automatically qualifies me to be lesser in your view.

you aren’t unreasonable to not want to pay for other people’s DC’s though.

We always under-book for this reason on optional trips, and figure we’ll squeeze one or two on if needed.

I agree with you that smoking is a terrible life choice, and that it's hypocritical to claim poverty if you're spending £3,000 or more on cigarettes; but where does that leave the three quarters of poor households where nobody does smoke?

Is this like all the 'advice' that gets trotted out to people who are struggling that they should just stop buying takeaways and coffees and lunches out etc. - when they couldn't even dream of affording to do this in the first place? IF people are struggling and they are spending regularly on all these, then it is indeed good advice (and should be obvious) for those people; but it's useless advice to those who couldn't and never do buy them anyway.

I could say the same about rich people who expect schools to arrange to take their children skiing: maybe if they were willing to budget the money and do all of the organising themselves, there's a very easy solution for them as a family, and they clearly have nothing to complain about.

I also really wouldn't instantly believe everything that any politician - of any political shade - tells you, without a ton of salt. They have 'special ways' of measuring things and asserting 'facts' that fit their agenda, but which are never the full picture - they've been doing it forever.

What do you have to do for PP status apart from fsm and adoptive then if it's a wide category? There's a thing called Essex activate that runs holiday clubs for free near us. But only for PP kids.

My DD asked about could she pay something for her child to go but the answer was no. Yet she can't afford very expensive holiday clubs either so dgc misses out.

What do you have to do for PP status apart from fsm and adoptive then if it's a wide category? There's a thing called Essex activate that runs holiday clubs for free near us. But only for PP kids.

My DD asked about could she pay something for her child to go but the answer was no. Yet she can't afford very expensive holiday clubs either so dgc misses out.

How long ago was this? You still seem really resentful about it