To skint us all by sending DC to private school?

[Stilish]

One DC is at private school. This is because they have SEN and was really struggling at local comp. This was before the VAT issue. That DC is absolutely flourishing.

Next DC has no SEN and started at the local comp last year. Is not having a great time at all, it’s a really poor school in many ways and this DC has gone from happy and high achieving, to unhappy and failing academically in 12 months.

I want to send this DC to the private school too, where I know they will thrive like their sibling. But with the VAT it will be an incredible stretch for our family and I don’t know what to do. I have one happy child in a good school doing well, and one unhappy child in a crap school not doing well.

I hate Kier Starmer and I hate Rachel Reeves. Their spiteful tax hasn’t punished any of the rich families. But I’ve been homeless and my husband and I have grafted since our teenage years, and it’s bloody punishing us.

What on earth do I do?

YANBU - find a way and send them
YABU - keep one child in the local comp and let them keep failing

Well, sure but are any of those things VAT exempt? Private tuition maybe, but I don’t think anything else you’ve listed is.

I honestly am not anti private school but I sincerely do not see the justification for a VAT exemption.

I do really sympathise with the OP though and hope they find a solution that works for their family.

It benefits the rest of society to receive the tax money from the majority who have continued to stay open though! Only a minority have closed, why shouldn’t the rest of society receive the benefits for the tax the schools pay?

People around the country are sucking up extra costs and inflation or deciding they go without, food shops, trades, utilities - all vastly more expensive now than they were 5 years ago. The average Joe with not much disposable income is surviving by making cuts, why shouldn’t the wealthy?

We’ve existed a long time with the rich using expensive accountants to get out of paying enough tax. There are still thousands and thousands who evade normal tax legislation. It’s sickening. Private schools absolutely should pay tax. If the parents can afford the knock on payments, great. If not, then kid moves school. Just like thousands do for other reasons every year, some due to their parents changing financial situation.

The rich seem to think rules don’t apply to them for some reason.

Louder for the people at the back

Precisely. And now it is not.

They all are, unless provided by a company.

Sorry, I don’t think I understand the point you’re making - private schools ARE companies so by that argument, should not be exempt from VAT.

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree - I just cannot see enough value added to society at large by private schools to justify a VAT exemption and nothing you have said has persuaded me otherwise.

We’re in a cost of living crisis - all of us are finding ourselves unable to afford things we used to be able to. It’s painful, but I can assure you there are families on a much smaller income than 100K finding it much more painful.

I hope the O.P finds the right solution for her kids.

Do you really only have one mainstream option??
I think if you have two kids you need to give both the same schooling tbh… I think you’re creating problems later on by sending one private and one not.
Would the school make any adjustments?

kindly your anger is misplaced- you did choose to have two kids and send one to private school- if you have kids there is always the risk of sen and the additional needs that entails - plus you could move for better mainstream school placements. What would you have done if both kids had sen?! That still could arise. You’ve not got enough provision or considered this before having kids. I agree the risk is small but if it does occur it’s a huge challenge that needs taking on. Could the school offer you some help?? That would be the ideal outcome…

What about all the parents who can't afford to send their SEN child private? You are highly privileged.

It may well cost the government more over time, so I wouldn't hold you breath for any benefits. It isn't just about schools closing. It is about reduced numbers across the sector. Once the numbers shrink too much (they are headed in that direction) then the revenue from the VAT won't cover the cost of the children coming into the state sector. This can be hidden because it is gradual and our birth rate is low but it doesn't mean VAT on schools is cost effective for the Government.

The top 10% pay 60% of income tax. A lot of wealthy people must be paying a lot of tax, so I wouldn't be too bitter about them.

It is small businesses and/or people with side hustles who carry out the most tax evasion. They are not usually that rich. It is up to you if you want to be angry with them.

Very high net worth individuals who legally avoid paying tax don't necessarily keep their money in the UK or keep themselves in the UK. It is a waste of time being angry with them. HMRC tries to get what it can out of them before they head back off Monaco or Switzerland, or wherever.

Can you explain this please? What do you mean they’re claiming 8k pa for state education?

It makes OP one of the poorer of the rich families, if we are going to be specific.

If she compared herself to the whole of the UK population as opposed to those for whom private school is even vaguely possible, she would realise this.

Or even if she compared herself to the population slice with financial means just below her own, who were already priced out of private school.

That's just what I was thinking!
However, you still have my sympathies op..

Parents who move out of private now use the state. Hence using the £8k of funding for each child attending state school. Instead of not needing this.

I think this is the case 33,000 pupils so far- according to news article that popped up today.

Ah ok I see what you mean. I get the point but I’d guess (with zero research) most parents have kept their kids in private school anyway? Those in OPs bracket might have had to leave but the vast majority would stay so the ‘costing more than tax’ is a red herring.

That's 33,000 though who are now costing the state £8k each. And rising. Balances out some of that VAT collected.

So no extra £5k for the gov for each of those. Plus £8k a year to cost the state now to educate them

Also don't kid yourselves, of course any net money raised (while there is net money raised) is not channeled into state education. It's just more to spend on whatever nonsense the government choose to back. HS2, £250k new homes for asylum seekers, you name it...

I wouldn’t send one child and not the other, so I would take on second job, do whatever I could to make it work.

Ok but from a quick google search it looks like there’s over 500k kids (around 2.5m income) in private schools so the 33k (around 250k cost) is a drop in the ocean.

I appreciate on a personal level it must be hard if you fall into that 33k though who can no longer afford it. But maybe people wouldn’t feel they had to go to private schools if the state system was better funded. The money has to come from somewhere.

I get your point about whether it’ll be channelled into other initiatives etc but then what is the solution to that? Total revolution? I’m up for it 🙌

Lots of children struggle in state school, but I don't blame Starmer or Reeves. I blame Johnston amongst others. Do what you want but your issue is not with VAT on private schools, it is the underinvestment in state schools by previous governments.

I get your point about whether it’ll be channelled into other initiatives etc but then what is the solution to that? Total revolution? I’m up for it 🙌

@Strawberrryfields could you tell us more about a total revolution and the form it will take?

How many years overlap is there? Could you remortgage?

Exactly!!!!

No offence but if you can afford £33k a year in school fees, even at a stretch, then you are a rich family. Private school isn’t a necessity, you aren’t hard done by because it’s too much of a stretch

Have you claimed DLA for your child with SEN? We struggled to send 2 children with SEN to a private school as the local one is shit. Once the VAT was added we could barely afford it. So I claimed for everything I could. I never claimed anything before as we earn decently and didn’t need it. I now get £400 a month DLA for each child, I get about the same in PIP for my arthritis and I have dropped down my self employed hours so I can claim Carers Allowance. All in all, we now get an extra £1500 a month tax free which pays for one school place completely. If you can’t beat all the other benefit scroungers, join them!

We would never have claimed any of that if the VAT hadn’t have been added. So it actually costs the taxpayer more for our family now. I have no regrets! No one gave a shit when my children with SEN were shafted…so I don’t give a shit now!

Have a look at the report from Scotland…adding the VAT has actually cost the country millions because of children leaving private school, children never starting at private, job losses etc. People have asked the government to produce a similar report for England but they won’t….I wonder why….

I hate Kier Starmer and I hate Rachel Reeves. Their spiteful tax hasn’t punished any of the rich families.

The VAT wasn't to 'punish' rich families. It was installed as tax on a luxury service which always should have been there. Your mindset of bitterness and victimhood won't be helping either of your children to thrive.

You can't afford it – it's really as simple as that. And you need to accept it.