Queen Bee

[thingisimhere]

DD (13) is dealing with a classic "queen bee" situation. Unfortunately, her best friend recently moved away, leaving a gap in her friendship group. DD is generally well liked and gets on with most people, but a new girl has joined the group who seems very focused on popularity, social hierarchy, and maintaining her status. She frequently bad-mouths girls she sees as a threat and thrives on creating drama.

The girl has developed a reputation for "stealing friends" not because she genuinely wants to build meaningful friendships, but because she wants to prevent certain girls from having close friendships of their own. She goes after friendships for strategic reasons, creating divisions within the group and isolating those she views as competition including my dd 😢

Any ideas how dd can navigate this? Most of the group are also in the same dance school, which dd adores. She is worried queen bee will push her out. Leaving the group is not an option. Dd rubs along fine with most and is annoyed and stressed that QB is undermining her efforts to befriend some lovely girls that are at the periphery of the group. The girl seems very hyped up a lot of the time, just constantly scheming and trying to manipulate everyone.

Is there any way to break queen bee's 'spell'?

I sympathise with your desire to help your DD who is struggling, but I do think that as parents, soetimes we have to take the heat out of situations. Acknowledging a child's feelings needs to be balanced with not over egging it.

At a practical level, I'd suggest to dd that she consider some activities and time with some of the girls on a more 1-2-1 basis. Suggest that she invite Susie to a sleepover or that she goes shopping with Jane or to a movie with Marie. Perhaps Penny and her can go swimming together....? The pooint is to build bonds one to one vs attempting to navigate a complicated group dynamic and it doesn't have to be done in a way that creates any tension within the group.

While some larger friendship groups do exist and function well, I think this idea of a group of 4-6 girls who are very close and do everything together is one created by tv and not very realistic in real life. The sooner your DD realises that and prioritises individual friends who ideally, over time, also get on, the better.

I’m just trying to picture my mum (or any of my friends’ mums) gathering and analysing this much detail about me and and my school friends at this age 🤣 It’s bizarre to me how much has changed.

Agreed and it's really not helpful for the kids to have their social lives curated in this way.

I agree with you@Brunchatstephanies
and can see where you are coming from @thingisimhere
I have no advice except to encourage your daughter to continue being as friendly as she can with the nicer girls in the group and really stress to her not to “bitch” with them about Queen Bee.
Avoid her as much as possible - it won’t be easy but will be so worth it.

Good Lord OP, you're getting a rough ride here. For what it's worth, I have two teen daughters and have seen this behaviour over and over, and it's really hard to navigate. I agree that parents shouldn't be getting overly involved, but this sounds to me like OP is asking for advice on how to support her daughter through it, not how to wade in and tackle the teenage angst herself.

OP, if it helps, we've lived through similar again and again and all I try to do is listen when my DDs need to offload, try not to have an opinion that's too strong, other than 'that sounds really hard to see/hear/deal with' and occasionally offer thoughts that 'this girl sounds like she could be unhappy which could explain why she did X or Y' though you do have to be careful that a) your daughter feels like you're taking the other child's side or b) shares what you said wider. Both have happened here.

The fact is our kids are going to come up against all kinds of stuff like this, and while it's heartbreaking to see them struggle with it, we can only cheer them on from the side. I focus on, rightly or wrongly, on building them up at home, listening and hugging when needed, and encouraging plenty of friendship activities with other kids outside of school. One of mine went through a really difficult time, with a similar situation, and slowly but surely she formed closer friendships with others which made her more resilient, and the drama passed. Bloody hard to watch though.

Not sure that helps, but I wanted to lend some support as the teen years can feel brutal.

Ensure your dd never criticises anyone it can be used against her.

Parented two girls now late teens both with amazing long standing friendships and for both of them their real friendship groups solidified in years 9 and 10. Lots of shifting around before that as the girls learn to manage relationships and their personalities develop sufficiently for them to find who their real like minded friends are. It can be abit of a process! Some girls are very difficult at this age most grow out of it a minority don’t. If she’s really problematic assist your dd with remaining civil but not getting too close.

All you can do is be a calm on their side presence.

Talk about a rough ride. The mind boggles at those who don't think these dynamics exist or that young people don't benefit from adult support.

Btw, this is not just a girls thing. All children will experience this at some point or in their adult life. OP clearly wants to provide support. Some parents are more involved and invested than others, as has ever been the case.

OP - not caring (outwardly) is very disarming for these types. Agree also with those about casting wide nets so she has respite when one dynamic becomes too consuming. Your child will need to learn however some friends will be "lost" to people like this if they're not particularly discerning. Which is absolutely more about them and the child doing the manipulation. Better to have few friends than those that can be played.

I don't think it has, apart from the subsection of the population (who are overrepresented on Mn, admittedly) for whom the slightest whiff of anything school-related, whether it's their own child's friendships or other parents talking to their friends at the school gate, immediately plunges them back into their own schooldays, obsessing about 'cliques' and 'exclusions' and 'Queen Bees'. I had to intervene in a bullying situation when DS (14) was in mid-primary, but other than that, his friendships are his own domain.

OP, most of your posts are about this 'Queen Bee' child and her Machiavellian schemings. Say more about your daughter and what she wants, other than (understandably) for a time machine to stop her best friend moving away and this girl arriving. You don't say whether she likes the new girl or not. What does she want to happen. You say leaving the friendship group 'isn't an option', but you also say your daughter wants to befriend other girls she likes on the periphery of that group, which suggests she's not thrilled with the status quo, regardless of the Queen Bee child.

The thing is, no one can stop her befriending who she likes, or continuing to attend dance classes. The thing she needs to realise is a basic facet of adult life, is that she can only control her own actions. She cannot control anyone else's. She can choose not to see the new child socially outside of school or dance. She can't control whether the rest of her friendship group do, or whether they prefer the new girl to her and would choose her, if push came to shove.

Your daughter needs to prioritise her own feelings, think about what she wants to do herself, and recognise that she can't control other people.

If you think it actually amounts to bullying, raise it with the school insofar as it relates to your own daughter. Other children's possible damaged self-esteem needs to be their own and their parents' concern. Otherwise encourage your DD to focus on herself and to approach situations from the POV of 'Is this working for me? Am I ok with this? If not, what can I do to change things/take myself out of the situation?'

If you ask me, she should focus on befriending the girls she likes on the periphery of the original group. If the original group choose to pull away from her, that's not something she can change.

Btw - we've already been through this with my son who is mid primary. It's helped to explain that this stems from the individual feelings bad about themselves. Not to encourage sympathy for their damaging behaviour, but to create understanding that sometimes, it's never really about you and isn't something you can control and there are some battles that won't be won. Because there are many variables (others intentions and reactions) we can't control.

I didn’t say anything about your attitude. I don’t know if you replied to me by mistake, but @ClaudiaWankleman asked ’I think your attitude sounds just as problematic to your daughter as this girl could be.’ so maybe you meant to reply to her? 🤷‍♀️ Apologies to you both if not.

But I 100% agree that a friend of any age (or a spouse) cannot be ‘stolen’, they can move on to different friendships, or prefer the new one, or allow themselves to be manipulated or whatever, but they cannot be ‘stolen’.

I strongly recommend your daughter widens her approach, there are many really quiet girls hanging out at schools, going completely under the radar just quietly wishing school to be over, most of them are awesome.

(They might hang out on the covered bench by the side entrance to the science block and they might always go to dinner queue when there’s only ten people left, and then they’re able to eat their dinner in peace, and they might really really like that dinner lady with glasses because she’s generous with her portions to those quiet and late kids)

If it’s any comfort when both mine found their real tribe all these issues vanished. It’s a developmental stage but you don’t realise it at the time!

It’s like when you have difficult boyfriends in your 20s with lots of drama then meet your husband and it’s just …easy.

I absolutely love this outlook. If it's drama or causing angst, it's just not meant to be. This applies to absolutely loads of situations.

She's 13..! You're expecting more maturity and growth from her than most people ever demonstrate. In a school environment it's not really helpful or reassuring to tell yourself you can't control other people's actions (even though it's true). Your friend group dumping you at this important age can really set your school life on a negative trajectory, so no wonder OP is worried (sorry OP, this likely does not help).

Absolutely this. Your daughter needs to learn how to navigate her friendships on her own and build resilience.

I mean the 'queen bee' stuff is pretty melodramatic, so much so they made a film about it. Alternatively you could read the factual book 'queen bees and wanabees' - that might help navigate these choppy waters

Queen bee is a social archetype, much like class clown, social butterfly, drama queen, know-it-all, people pleaser or busybody. It’s simply shorthand to describe a recognisable pattern of behaviour in a group. I appreciate it rubs some posters up the wrong way, but it’s just a way of explaining what DD has been experiencing without writing a huge back story, not a red rag.

In any case, DD came home much happier today as she’s found out QB won’t be returning to the dance school in September. This might take some of the pressure out of the group dynamics. It is easier to avoid each other in school especially as dd will not be in any of the same sets as her and will be doing other clubs at lunch, so room for some positive change. Dd is quite resilient but her bestie leaving hasn't been easy, they have been friends since reception. Most teenage girls value their close friends and when the dynamics become toxic it's hard for anyone. And it's hard for parents to see your dc upset.

People can try to minimise this as much as they like, but unless they have been on the outside of this group, the receiving end, they have no idea of the damage it can do. The ‘Queen Bee’ exists and can make an average, ordinary girl’s life miserable. I didn’t know how to deal with it when I was at school, nor when my daughter was. I’m now 65, she’s 32. It’s only in the last maybe 15 years that I have been able to truly trust any female friends. She has a few. Sadly, my experience with women has been predominantly negative. I was never able to understand bitchiness. Not because I’m always a delight, but because it didn’t make sense. It costs nothing to be kind and ‘if you can’t say anything nice, then shut up’ is a maxim worth repeating.

OP, from experience this advice is spot on. It's a support system rather than solution but it will get her (and you) through the storm.
scrub the unhelpful/sharp comments, some of them would make interesting reading for a therapist.

A great post @PeopleWatching17

So hope your DD is hanging on in there, OP. As you rightly say, when their best friend is no longer around, it leaves then very vulnerable. Soon it’ll be the summer holidays, perhaps your DD can spend some time with those she feels most close to, away from everyone else, and then those bonds will be stronger when they return in the summer.